Even to the most fervent Weezer diehards, “Hash Pipe” must have come as a huge surprise. Hitting airwaves in April of 2001 as the first single from The Green Album, which dropped the following month, it was the first officially released Weezer song in five years — and man, was it ever a departure. To hear that simple arena rock riff surging out of the void left by “Butterfly” back in 1996 must have truly been a shock.
The song shot to #2 on the Billboard Modern Rock Chart (back when that actually meant anything), and was the first time Weezer found itself building an entirely new fanbase almost from scratch. Teenagers across the country fell in love with “Buddy Holly” back in 1994, and now, seven years later, their little siblings were being introduced to the band in their own way. In retrospect, going with a second self-titled album now actually seems to make sense. The Green Album was a rebirth, a fresh slate.
Meanwhile, those teenagers who slowdanced to “Say It Ain’t So” and cut their braces to “Why Bother?” had grown up, and many were stunned by Weezer’s change of sound. In a rather personal and candid review of TGA for Pitchfork (before they were hip), Spencer Owen wrote of the single:
It was on the radio one day a few weeks ago. I listened to it. I listened to the whole song, from beginning to end. And when it ended, I said no. I said no no no no no. No! Weezer! NO!! Where has Rivers Cuomo gone? What has he done? What has happened to Weezer?! WHERE ARE THE REAL WEEZER?!! My heart was broken. Really. This is going to sound like hyperbole, but I hated music at that moment. For just a moment, I lost faith completely.
While this was an extreme reaction, many had a hard time accepting the new direction, and the great weeding out of Weezer’s original fanbase began (and has continued to take its toll with every album released since). Folks who had grown up to and weened themselves on Cuomo’s ’90s heyday had a hard time coping with his apparent “sellout,” and many left; others still developed a sort of beaten wife complex that keeps them coming back to the band despite a general trend of disappointment; and others still have accepted and embraced Weezer’s work in the new millennium. In rare instances, some fans even prefer the band’s later records.
While I still think it’s obvious to anyone with good taste that Weezer began with an incredible debut in ’94 and peaked creatively with one of the greatest albums of all time in ’96, I can appreciate certain parts of the later canon for what they are. In truth, “Hash Pipe” is a great song; it is not “Across the Sea” or “Falling For You,” but it makes no effort to be. Instead, it’s a stupid arena rock song par excellence. It deserves props for getting what is essentially a heavy metal song (about a transvestite hooker! with falsettos!) on the charts in 2001. It is the only song on Green that actually sounds like “early Beatles meets Helmet,” as guitarist Brian Bell described the album’s rehearsal sessions on Weezer’s official site. I also love the music video, which encapsulates 2001-era Weezer perfectly: stylish and rocking as hell, with a sense of humor to boot. Just watch guitarist Brian Bell and (new) bassist Mikey Welsh as they rock out! Makes me wanna get up and strap on my bass every time.
Regarding alternate versions, there’s the matter of the radio edit that censors the “hash,” the MTV version which hilariously lists the song title as “Half Pipe” (vocals unaltered, as far as I know), and the re-edit of the song that the band made after the fact, which truncates the end of the chorus and shaves about 10 seconds off the song’s runtime. Pretty much ruins the song, in my opinion.
Oh, and then there are the versions we have of “Hash Pipe” from when it surfaced as a part of the unofficial extension of the “Summer Songs 2000″ set (more on those songs later), which is basically the same, albeit there being some more interesting (and harder) guitar leads on the chorus, a few more engaging drum fills throughout, plus the occasional change of the lyric from “c’mon and kick me” to “c’mon and kiss me.” For some reason I’ve always been attracted to the “kick me” line (there’s something daring and reckless about it), and prefer it how it repeats on the album version.
63 Comments
I heard this for the first time in June of 2000 when the first bootleg from SS2K surfaced (from Jerry’s Pizza?)…I was a little stunned to say the least.
Preacher’s Son and O-girl were also played at the show and I loved both of them….but Hashpipe just never caught one with me.
Then I heard Rivers had been obsessed with Nirvana (and Oasis) during the hiatus and had a Goat Punishment show that basically covered just Nirvana songs (where is a bootleg for THAT??) and then I understood where the song was coming from (especially the “Big Cheese” lyric). Granted, it’s a great song to bop your head to in the car with your windows down…
I’ve heard all sorts of things about the leaked/alternate version of Green, and have been highly interested in it, but never managed to find it.
I should get on that.
I’m one of those fans that even though I think that Blue and Pink eras are far superior I still enjoy much of PP in it’s own right.
Everything can’t just be black and white in the Weezer world.
Just because it’s not as great as ATS doesn’t mean you can’t enjoy it.
Hell if I should compare and despise everything that’s not as good as Blue or Pink I would probably not listen to very much music at all.
Hash Pipe is one of the highlights of TGA and probably the song with most peronality. In my opinion it’s better than almost every other pop/rock songs that flows out of the radio today.
As you said, the video is brilliant. The part when it zooms in on Rivers is pure gold.
TGA era Weezer was fun and rocking and had better melodies than most other boring rock/pop bands of that era.
ATS is a masterpiece.
Hash Pipe is a GREAT song.
I thought it was Brian Bell who made the ‘Beatles/Helmet’ comment.
If this is going to be one of those “While I still think it’s obvious to anyone with good taste that Weezer began with an incredible debut in ‘94 and peaked creatively with one of the greatest albums of all time in ‘96,” blogs then I think I am going to be gritting my teeth a lot reading this blog.
Tapegun: Very interesting to hear the perspective of someone who was listening along to the SS2k songs. Can’t wait to get into those. And making the Nirvana connection on “Big Cheese” — fantastic!
Dennis: There aren’t *that* many differences…worth a listen, though. “Hash Pipe” wasn’t on it.
Melack: Agreed all around.
Peegrinder, whose comment just came through: was it? I remember hearing someone on the a6 forum saying it was Pat. If anyone knows where that official post might be archived, that’d be really cool to read. Pat having said it made sense to me, though I guess it could be Brian, too…
As for you gritting your teeth — I look forward to hearing your counterpoints!
Hash Pipe is the kind of song that grips you, turns your brain to shit, and then doesn’t call you the next night.
The label was incredibly reluctant to have Hash Pipe as a single. Not only is the title a drug reference, but upon further inspection, the song’s lyrics reveal themselves to be blatantly sexual.
“Those players come to get me ’cause they like my behind,” croons a teenage transvestite hooker as she continues to talk about the taste of a teat.”
Rivers, adamant that Hash Pipe, fought the record label’s wishes and proved right. No one could have foreseen the success of Hash Pipe save Rivers himself.
I’m really not sure if the band’s revival would have made as big of a splash — or even happened at all — if the band caved and went with Geffen’s choice for the 1st single, “Don’t Let Go.”
I think the Helmet/AHDN-era Beatles comparison was Brian, during the early rehearsals (possibly before the Jerry’s pizza show).
For some reason, I always saw Hash Pipe being the first single off Green as a gift to the hard core fans–it was the only summer song from ’00 to make it to green, and it was one that fans were used to. Although, listening to it as a single, it’s hard to picture Rivers in his 2000 nerd phase singing. It’s a lot easier to picture the words/music/attitude from the harder-edge Rivers that came out in 01. I even remember it surprising some of my non-Weezer fan friends, that the guy who was so sensitive on the Pinkerton tracks I forced them to listen to was now rocking out hard. The song definitely had an edge- something people weren’t used to. Don’t Let Go is a good song, but it wouldn’t have had the impact as a first single. Island wouldn’t have either.
As you mentioned Hash Pipe is a great video- and the one that Marcos Siega got right (little did we know he would recycle his gimmick of group-racial stereotype-band member- zoom-close up on instrument-rinse-repeat would crop up in every video of his that followed).
Here I go again, but I have to agree with some of the other Post Pinkerton comments made here. I like to think I have good taste and I enjoy the 2000+ era Weezer as much as anyone. For all of its greatness, Pinkerton was flawed- feedback on the tracks along with some sloppy playing–but that made it work. Granted, Green was buttoned up perfect (too perfect sometimes), but for Weezer it had to be. This was a band that narrowly survived the industry mergers of the late 90s. They were walking on eggshells and needed a hit album that would give Rivers the confidence to boost his ego to make him the “world domination Rivers” we came to know in ’01 and ’02.
I think creatively, they’re still as strong as ever–they’re breaking out and trying new things and doing it as a unit. The songs don’t have to have the (sometimes embarassing) level of emotional introspection that Pinkerton’s songs had. And if Rivers were still writing on the same subject material these days, instead of criticizing them for their lack of depth, people would be criticizing him for being too hung up on Asian women, or living in his 20s. His life has moved on from the days in a Harvard dorm room.
Like you’ve said Soyrev, some fans, even though they’re unhappy with the current output keep coming back like “battered wives” (and you’re not the first to make this connection). With this in mind, I don’t blame Rivers for calling us (well, some of us anyway) whiny bitches.
Okay, I trust you guys’ word on this one — the entry has changed the Helmet/early Beatles quote attribution from Pat to Brian.
Also, you say the fans were familiar with “Hash Pipe” by ’01, but that’s a rare caste of fan that was both die-hard Weezer fan and early Internet aficionado. “Hash Pipe” was not one of the official SS2K songs and must have been a bit harder to come across. Even fans who did know of it must have been shocked to find that it had made the record (as it had only been played live a few times), that it was the only SS2K song to do so, and that it was the lead single.
Creatively, the band is not as strong as ever — I definitely can’t agree with you there. The point of using Pinkerton and The Blue Album is not to say that we want that to be the model for future Weezer sounds/subject matters, but rather just that benchmark of quality. We know Rivers has been capable of records that good at least twice before (I would say 4 or 5 times, counting the brilliant Homie songs, the clutch of RCB classics, and some hints of superior material in 1999…oh, and the Deluxe tracks of TRA hint that the band could have cobbled together an album at least twice as good just by swapping in a few tracks that they finished recording and reconsidering the sequencing). But in reality, it hasn’t happened, and shows few signs of ever happening again. I don’t want Rivers to sing about Asian girls and masturbatory angst anymore, I just want quality songs that fit together, or at least make sense being on the same disc. Your point is moot anyway though, because Cuomo’s lyrics have been more juvenile and immature than ever on the past couple records…It’s not like he’s matured and moved on to more “adult” topics.
And, it was “little bitches,” not whiny.
>Also, you say the fans were familiar >with “Hash Pipe” by ‘01, but that’s a >rare caste of fan that was both die->hard Weezer fan and early Internet >aficionado.
In the summer of ’00, Karl had a poll on weezer.net as to what four songs should be included on a demo tape to potential producers. Hash Pipe was one of the lead vote getters. (Check out the 8/6/00 entry on weerez.com’s archive of Karl’s Korner at http://weerez.com/wna/25.php –there were 16 options for fans to vote for).
As for your points about the band’s creative output. Neither Blue nor Pink were whole-band efforts. While Blue had input from Pat and Matt, Brian’s efforts on the album were restricted to backing vocals (see Rivers’ Edge), and Cropper had more of a creative input on the songs than he did. As for Pinkerton, that was the vision of Rivers, all songs were written and chosen completely by him, and if stories are to be believed, in the course of self-production, he told his band-mates what to play. His grip on the band’s album input didn’t loosen until Maladroit, when everyone started contributing again. The band became a democracy again with the song selection for Make Believe, and it wasn’t until the Red Album that compositions and songs fronted by other band members actually saw the light of day.
I’ll be the first to admit that Cold Dark World and Automatic aren’t the best songs on the Red Album. But if you’re going to say “Creatively, the band is not as strong as ever,” at least give the band (as a whole) credit for the creative output of the band (as a whole).
Again, it’s a difference of opinion. I think that Red is a great album. Make Believe has some strong moments. Are either an album that tells a cohesive story, like Pinkerton? No. But neither is Blue.
And I also don’t agree with your point about Rivers’ lyrics being “juvenile and immature.” To wit:
“It’s not my destiny to be the one that you will lay with.”
“I may not be a perfect soul, but I can learn self control.”
Believe it or not, it takes a tremendous amount of introspection to realize that the person you’re infatuated with is not the one you should be with. It takes a great deal of humility to apologize, much less do it in a public form for the world to hear. Just as Pinkerton was about letting out the inner demons of his 20s, the albums of Weezer’s latest period have been about what’s going on in the band’s (mostly Rivers’) life now. There are a lot fewer demons, but they’re still there. Like it or not, when you’re 30 and have a family, these are the things you think about. Not being obsessed with a lesbian, the sins of one’s step father, or being tired of sex with groupies (to be honest, I can only speak from experience on the first two, but not the last one).
All of Weezer’s albums, to date (not to mention some unreleased Weezer songs and Rivers solo demos), are strong works containing great music and deep lyrics (your mileage may vary) that people can relate to. And they’re great to sing along to. It would be great if people could talk about each Weezer album on its own rather than comparing it to what came before or after.
And you’re right about “little bitches.” I suppose “whiny” is redundant.
The point about “Hash Pipe” being voted onto the demo is one I had forgotten entirely. Good call, though even then, the folks who were keeping up with Weezer enough to have traded bootleg mp3s in 2000 were a small constituency of Weezer’s mid-90s fanbase. I guarantee the moment most of those folks heard that song was when they heard it over the radio. “Wait, Weezer’s back?”
More importantly, I see the song titles “Yer Fun to Play With,” “Disappointments” and “Torture” on that list. Did these songs become other ones we know, or have they been lost to the sands of time? I know “My Best Friends” became “Brightening Day”…
Back on topic: giving credit to the band members for what is by and large awful music is a ludicrous proposal. Why should I thank Scott for making “Cold Dark World” happen? It sucks. “Thought I Knew” was once a good song that could have been great, but Brian Bell let it slip away from him in the studio w/ Weezer…and don’t we have these guys to thank for “We Are All On Drugs” and “My Best Friend” making it back to MB? Also, yes, they played their own parts on Maladroit, but that’s moot since Maladroit is a complete mess, musically. I’ll chastise them for bad music, not praise them for trying. And who cares if band input was limited on Blue and even moreso on Pinkerton? Ends justify the means, and I’d rather have dictator Cuomo enforcing high levels of inner-tension and making great music, instead of having a happy band making mediocre music. Art doesn’t have to hurt for everyone, but looking at Weezer’s track record…
And still, the band contributed in its own ways to Pinkerton. Rivers is far too subpar a drummer to have shown Pat even half the beats and fills on that album, so that much is clearly his work (and by far, the best of his work). Matt may be told when and when not to do his falsetto parts, but the shouts and little characteristics he adds (like, say, on “El Scorcho”) are definitely his, as is his bass style…he may mostly be playing basslines Cuomo told him to play (or not), but either way, it’s still going to sound very different than if Cuomo simply played them all himself. Etc, etc. And for what it’s worth, Rivers recently says that he remembers Pinkerton as far more of a “band effort” than has been speculated…And if nothing else, that means that each band member played like his life depended on it, and it shows. Musically, it is fantastic.
(And for the record, I do love “Automatic.”)
“Again, it’s a difference of opinion. I think that Red is a great album. Make Believe has some strong moments. Are either an album that tells a cohesive story, like Pinkerton? No. But neither is Blue.”
Again, that’s entirely missing the point. Blue is great because it has 10 great songs. Pinkerton is a masterpiece because it has 10 great songs that add up to a sum far greater than its (already great) parts. No other Weeezer album does this (even the ones that have more than 10 songs), and that is why they are not the same.
Also, TBA may not have an explicit theme, but there is definitely one to be found — that of “the lonely nerd” and “high school alienation” in general. Plus, Cuomo has said there’s at least one example of storytelling continuity between songs on TBA — “No One Else” into TWHTALMH. More on that later.
“Like it or not, when you’re 30 and have a family, these are the things you think about. Not being obsessed with a lesbian, the sins of one’s step father, or being tired of sex with groupies (to be honest, I can only speak from experience on the first two, but not the last one).”
I already addressed this the last time around — the song subject matter doesn’t change the fact that, musically, Pinkerton is damn nearly a grand slam (and the slightly lesser parts of the album are still mountains above most of the band’s later work). Take the (incredibly juvenile and pedestrian) lyrics out of “Beverly Hills” and it is still a musical joke that is almost saved by a decent solo that is almost also a joke. But to belabor the point, you citing two passable lyrics from TRA and MB is nonsense. I could quote “Put me in a special school / ‘Cause I am such a fool” and “You’re my best friend and I love you / Yes I love you / Yes I do” all day, but extreme examples only get any point so far. The fact is, on the whole (musically, lyrically, thematically), these songs mostly suck. And are incredibly immature, to decimate your “he’s matured now” argument, but even that is really tertiary to the fact that the songs just aren’t that good.
“Why should I thank Scott for making “Cold Dark World” happen?…Brian Bell let it slip away from him in the studio w/ Weezer…and don’t we have these guys to thank for “We Are All On Drugs” and “My Best Friend” making it back to MB?”
Because they’re a band. They’re the ones that performed these songs and they’re the individuals, who came together as a group to decide which songs go on the album. In the end, it’s their music. And they’re the ones who should get credit or disdain for the songs.
“And who cares if band input was limited on Blue and even moreso on Pinkerton?”
Coming from the same person who said:
“Creatively, the band is not as strong as ever — I definitely can’t agree with you there.”
There’s a correlation- it’s either the band is strong as a unit (everyone contributing), or Rivers being the one driving force. You may not like their current output, but their creative inertia is greater at this point than at any other point in their career. Face it- everyone has a say. They’re trying new forms of music, going for new sounds and putting out things that you wouldn’t expect on a Weezer record. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean it’s not creative.
“The fact is, on the whole (musically, lyrically, thematically), these songs mostly suck. And are incredibly immature, to decimate your “he’s matured now” argument, but even that is really tertiary to the fact that the songs just aren’t that good.”
Well, again, that’s like all your opinion…and to me (and I’m sure there are others out there) the songs are that good. But it is your blog.
“In the end, it’s their music. And they’re the ones who should get credit or disdain for the songs.”
Wait, what — you mean the four songs primarily written by the other members of the band that have been officially released? That’s hardly worth noting even in a small discography of some 90-odd songs (small for such an old band, at least).
“There’s a correlation- it’s either the band is strong as a unit (everyone contributing), or Rivers being the one driving force.”
Creatively, the band is more democratic than ever. Sure, I’ll give you that. But does that make them a creatively strong band? Defining “creatively strong” as having produced a piece of art that is of quality, certainly not necessarily (and in most cases today, no). Trying something new isn’t successful simply by virtue of it being new.
(Also, TRA’s repertoire is far less adventurous than you may believe…that, too, will be discussed in time.)
So tell me, Gumbytom, since you’re going on so ardently about all of this: what songs off the past three Weezer albums would you assert match, say, a “Surf Wax America” or a “No Other One”? Note that I’m pulling some punches here, as there are far better songs from those records I could reference, but I’m curious as to what you would compare to early Weezer’s “lesser” tracks. Not counting TAATO or TRA’s deluxe songs, as I would certainly agree with you on some of those points. We’re talking full package here: lyrics, music, performance quality, production, et al.
“Wait, what — you mean the four songs primarily written by the other members of the band that have been officially released? That’s hardly worth noting even in a small discography of some 90-odd songs (small for such an old band, at least).”
Well, I think both the four songs as well as the song cho.ces- instrumentation, production, etc. This band is now running as a democracy, They have veto power over what songs make or don’t make an album, so give them all credit for their creative output (at least since Make Believe).
And if this is a Weezer song blog, than shouldn’t every entry (song) be significant? If every song is going to get its own entry, then in that way, they’re all equal. The fact that someone else wrote or sings on a song should be noted and matters, in the context of the song. I’d evn argue that it matters for the ’00-’01 era songs on which the earlier recordings featured Mikey on the bass, but the released versions featured Scott. On most (Burndt Jamb comes to mind), Scott’s versions are clearly superior–they’re part of the song and make a difference.
“Creatively, the band is more democratic than ever. Sure, I’ll give you that. But does that make them a creatively strong band?”
Again, that’s your opinion. Nothing that I write is going to change the fact that you (and others) prefer the band’s older material. And nothing that you say will keep me (or others) from liking the new stuff. But the thing here is instead of talking about the songs as they are individually, you’re placing judgements on the opinions of others and couching it in somewhat obnixous language (“far less adventurous than you may believe” and I think you’ve told me twice that my points are moot). I’m not here to be talked down to. I’m here to discuss the music I enjoy, and when you introduced this blog, I thought it would be a great opportunity to discuss the origins and developments of Weezer songs, not to be talked down to by someone who clearly can’t get past their preference of the band’s older material.
I’ve said it before (not here) that the problem with most Weezer reviews is that they can’t talk about one era without involving the other. You don’t like something? Fine. That’s your perrogative. But don’t go saying your taste is better or you’re intellectually superior over those of us who enoy the newer material.
As for your last question/challenge, I have to differ on the terms. First, to me, TRA deluxe is TRA. I purchased one CD with 14 songs, why can’t that be an album. And what about non-album tracks? Do those count? Secondly, (and I’m gonna get assassinated by one of the pink-and-blue only crew for saying this), but No Other One is one of my least favorite Weezer songs. I’d rather listen to Beverly Hills. But to kind of let you know where I’m coming from, here are some of my favorite tracks from the last three albums (your terms):
Slob, This is Such A Pity, Peace, The Other Way, The Greatest Man That Ever Lived, Pork ‘n Beans, Dreamin’, TAATO
I enjoy close to every song on the last three albums, but if I were putting together a ‘best of’ and had to pick from Maladroit onward, those tracks are the ones I’d go with.
Yes, every song will have its own entry, will be analyzed equally, and will have as thorough a rundown of the every version we know as is possible (Mikey variants included). I will always add in my own opinion, though (and hope the readership will continue to do the same!).
I disagree with your presumption that I don’t like the “new stuff.” There are several instances (however relatively rare) of new millennium songs I would put on as high a shelf as any “classic” era track (well, except maybe the stone-cold classics like ATS, OID, SIAS), and there are many more instances of me being able to appreciate the band’s new music as it is, without putting it into too much of a context. But, as the writer for this blog, I do have to do a bit of that here, inevitably, and especially so when the blog is just starting out and I have to provide a bit of a frame of reference for the album/era being discussed. In any case though, I think it’s a pretty fair assessment to say that Green is a great album in its own right (as the ultimate disposable summer pop album), but it’s no Pinkerton. I’m not saying it sucks because it doesn’t have Matt Sharp on it.
I’m not placing any judgments; I’m merely retorting. I state a point, you state a counterpoint, I state a counter-counterpoint, etc. I don’t see anything wrong with that — in fact, I deeply enjoy it, especially when someone else’s opinion might get me to reconsider my own. It’s one of the reasons I’m doing this blog…The factual element of it is very important, but that’s all information you can get elsewhere, so opinions is where the debate/fun comes in. And yes, I’m a naturally quizzical, argumentative person, so the way I phrase my responses may seem “judgmental” or “obnoxious” because I’m not ending every thought with “IMO,” nor beginning any with “I might be wrong, but…” The one thing I got out of 6th grade English was the fact that something’s clearly your opinion if you’re stating it, so I try not to waste anyone’s time (or insult their intelligence) by labeling all of my opinions as opinions.
“I’ve said it before (not here) that the problem with most Weezer reviews is that they can’t talk about one era without involving the other. You don’t like something? Fine. That’s your perrogative. But don’t go saying your taste is better or you’re intellectually superior over those of us who enjoy the newer material.”
Apologies for the copout, but that’s a heavy debate I would save for a different time/forum. And as I’ve said now, the cross-era comparison will become far less prevalent after this initial round. Although sometimes, you can’t help but get a little upset with Rivers for releasing something like “Space Rock” when you know what he’s really capable of (and for what it’s worth, I think Mala-era tune “Broken Arrows” is as good or better than nearly any Blue or Pinkerton song…so it’s not to say he can’t do it anymore).
“As for your last question/challenge, I have to differ on the terms. First, to me, TRA deluxe is TRA. I purchased one CD with 14 songs, why can’t that be an album.”
Because officially, it’s not. You’ve probably bought TBA Deluxe too, which is on two discs, but so is the White Album, which is still considered one album, so why can’t TBA Deluxe be? Why isn’t it considered one album? Because it’s not. In TRA Deluxe’s case, the TRA standard is what the band sent to press outlets, and that is what the press evaluated; on iTunes, the band has them all listed as “(Bonus Track)s.” You can think of it as single album yourself; hell, you can resequence the tracks and call that TRA if you want to. A6 member FAA has a “Red Album EP” on his iPod. But that doesn’t make it official.
“And what about non-album tracks? Do those count?”
Absolutely! Non-album tracks are where some of post-2000 Weezer’s (and pre-2000, really) best material is.
“Secondly, (and I’m gonna get assassinated by one of the pink-and-blue only crew for saying this), but No Other One is one of my least favorite Weezer songs.”
It’s my least favorite song on Pinkerton, probably, so I can feel you on that.
“I’d rather listen to Beverly Hills.”
Well, you’ve lost me there, yeah.
As for your list, I would mostly agree with it. Those are not my favorites, per se, but they are all between pretty good and great.
Reading this reminded me so much of the magic of summer 2000. moral was high and we were coming off of Pinkerton. I thought Slob, after hearing it live in summer 2k, stood shoulder to solder with what they left off with. When green came out i was greatly dissapointed. where had weezer gone. these songs didn’t even muster up what the summer songs had going for them. I did enjoy Hash Pipe as a ‘fun song’ and is still probably my favorite off that record.
GUMBYTOM, I was suprised to see how similar our tastes in post-pinkerton weezer is. my list would read: Slob, This is Such a Pity, Dreamin, Hold Me (esp electric cip version), GMTEL, Pig and Miss Sweeney.
Do you guys remember when albumsix.com used to have conversation like this? What the hell happened.
I might as well start coming here instead.
The Shods’ “Shot himself up.”
Probably worth mentioning the whole mini-controversy over the similarities between the songs (Rivers supposedly attendeded Shods concerts while in Boston).
Shit, PL! I totally forgot to mention that. Yeah, and Kevin Shods was briefly in the RCB (or was that Homie?), and I think even gave Cuomo a demo with that song on it…
Martin: u kno it
There’s a promo interview pack for Green that always sticks in my mind for Pat sounding down, talking about how compressed it is, mentioning the Beatles with rock guitars, and then perking up to say…there’s a song called Hash Pipe on it…that’s pretty rocking.
Wait, what? There’s a promo pack for TGA where Pat sadly notes how compressed it sounds?? Why on earth would he trash his product, especially as it’s just coming out…
It’s in that Yahoo Interview where Rivers has the crazy shows and has to be on some kind of pill.
“It’s more like the first album…but…moreso that direction”
“It’s kind of compressed..”
“I don’t think the fans will notice…”
Oh, was he wrong.
interesting fact the first line of this song
“I cant help my feelings i go out of my mind”
was lifted from the beatles song You Cant Do That
Yep! Definitely what Brian Bell was thinking of when he said A3 was going to be “A Hard Day’s Night meets Helmet.”
There might be a hint of Beatles or a dash of Helmet, but the true inspiration for the “Hash Pipe” sound is one near and dear to Rivers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elBUpxXIAGw
I hear what you mean! But strangely enough, the KISS song here is much more pop than the Weezer. I just love the way “Hash Pipe” bites and snarls!
Hash Pipe and the Green album STILL stunned even the more hardcore fan once it hit the airwaves. Even if you were tuned in during 2000 online, nothing could prepare for the sheer amount of polish on Green, even for Hash Pipe.
That Pitchfork review wasn’t far off for how the majority of die hard fans felt at the time, especially after a full year of SS2k and crazy passionate concerts.
I’ve always enjoyed Hash Pipe, but you simply cannot understate how confused or disappointed a lot of people were when it came out.
If you haven’t yet, READ THIS.
http://www.allthingsweezer.com/forum/index.php?topic=16140.0
This billboard article gets Rivers to open up more about his business side than anything else I’ve read recently.
It also has some highly disturbing quotes.
Damn it, wrong link. Use this one.
http://www.billboard.com/#/features/weezer-s-rivers-cuomo-jermaine-dupri-the-1004042679.story
“It also has some highly disturbing quotes”
Geez, I’ll say. I was doing spit takes every few lines. It made me wonder, what if all the stuff Rivers says is completely serious?
It is. It always has been. I don’t know why people have been so convinced that it hasn’t.
I mean, okay, Ace and the RC Board: is it ludicrous to think that Rivers might have ever sincerely believed “Crab” to be better than “Only In Dreams?” Yes. And maybe he didn’t really, truly think it, in the sort of way that you didn’t really mean to call your girlfriend a bitch that one time. But likewise, when he said those things there were real emotion behind them, real psychology: it was a man facing the fact that already, even at that point, he had fallen a long, hard way from his potential and his legacy. But he said it not as a joke, he said it with the intention to hurt — and above all else, to try to convince himself.
Rivers has always been sincere. It’s time to accept that.
The only thing he’s done sincerely with consistency is change for the sake of changing. His motivation seems simply not to repeat himself artistically.
That motivation has led to some conflicting statements over the years due to the man being unable to keep an opinion for more than 10 minutes; thus, his sincerity loses meaning to me.
I’ve never doubted there to be “real emotion and psychology” behind whatever outlandish thing he says; however, he’s reneged on his opinion of Pinkerton 100 times. All 100 of his opinions were sincere. All 100 contradict one another.
I’ve always accepted his sincerity, but I think his version of it can be pretty shallow at times. Today it’s “disney gay,” tomorrow it’s a masterpiece. How in the world are we ever supposed to take his sincerity seriously?
He’s done himeself no favors in the court of public opinon. He loves to play the devils advocate and push people’s boundaries.
He zigs when we think he’s going to zag, but I’m beginning to wonder why. If it’s artistically driven, I wish he’d put more effort in to his craft rather then put so much energy in to plotting his next step.
Judging by that article, he’s put an immense amount of thought in to what will sell the most records and how to make a buck on publishing and licensing. That seems like one thing he doesn’t change his mind about. I’d like to see that level of consistent sincerity going towards crafting his music to a higher level with a motivation beyond worrying about repeating himself and selling as many records as possible.
I could see him thinking “Crab” is better than “Only In Dreams.” As a songwriter or artist of any kind, it is very easy to get tunnel vision regarding your own work and what you’re trying to accomplish.
Yes, Burgess. During that time, Cuomo was much more concerned with “what could fill an arena?” than “what’s good art?” (As has been the case ever since, really) At least to his mind then, “Crab” was much more capable (at least potentially) to do the former than “Only In Dreams,” even if that’s certainly not the case seeing how the promise of Weezer playing OID at a show would probably draw hundreds of people, and “Crab” maybe a couple dozen.
Raditude is a perfect example of how Weezer’s finally gotten to the point in their careers where their best COMMERCIAL interest is to play to their die-hard fanbase, both what’s left of it and the part of it (read: vast majority) that lost interest at various intervals over the past decade. They could make good livings doing that from now on if they really worked on it, but with the band entering their forties, starting families, beginning to bald, etc, they’re dangerously close to that point where they’re just too old for the pop/tween market anymore — “Beverly Hills” was probably the last time they could ever do that.
Thom: “He’s done himself no favors in the court of public opinion. He loves to play the devils advocate and push people’s boundaries.”
More like “He loves to play the devil’s advocate and to his own interests.” The last time a Weezer album was vaguely boundary-pushing was Pinkerton, but even that was a very minor creative revolution. And maybe “The Greatest Man,” but that’s more of a mess than anything else (an entertaining, at times brilliant mess, but still without a doubt a mess). Brian Wilson he is not. Insulting the intelligence of his dwindling core fanbase by demanding that everyone agree that “Crab” beats anything off Blue doesn’t push a single goddamn boundary, it’s just the sound of bitchy lil’ Cuolmes wishing he didn’t have to work hard to get people to love him anymore.
I think that for the most part, he started writting all that crap because he was making songs in a more scientific way than a musical way. He started making music for fame instead of for his love of music.
This was obviously due to the fear of failure that Pinkerton caused but now I think that selling out is a more consious choice.
It still bugs me that the record company told Weezer that the earlier (presumably summer 2000 songs) version of the album wasn’t good enough, so they switched over to a new batch of songs. And then, despite this, Rivers managed to get “Hash Pipe” released as the first single, and it was huge. And then another SS2K song was the lead single on the next album! I think an album of those songs, in place of the green album, would have been just as if not more successful, and would have carried more fans over to the following album.
Good point, Burgess. It’s often forgotten that two 22SK songs (one of which was immensely popular) were lead singles.
I still don’t think an SS2K album would’ve been any great shakes. Add the best of Green with the best of SS2K (and some better production) and you’ve got one killer rock record, but one-or-the-other leads to just “pretty good” either way. Unless they were going to up their game in the studio, I think I’d rather go for Green than what might have emerged from the SS2K batch, to be honest.
“Dope Nose” tanked as a single though, right?
I don’t know. It hit #8 on the modern rock charts. “Photograph” hit #17 on the same chart. Was “Island in the Sun” written in the same period as the rest of the green songs? I don’t remember but I don’t think so.
Either way, “Dope Nose” was butchered, in my opinion, with the addition of the Flintstones vocals, the stupid “we’re having fun, really, for real!” backing vocals, and the stripping of the dash of country flavor from the original.
Really, the ideal third album would have come out in 1998, but I would have taken an album of 2000 songs over what we got.
No, “Island In The Sun” was a 1999 demo. The band almost forgot about it, but Ric Ocasek brought it up again and really urged the band to record it — thank God he was producing! Imagining Green without it is frightening…
Was “Photograph” a green-era song? If so, it’s the only green-era written single.
That depends on how you delineate “Green era.”
“Hash Pipe” appears in the COR after “Brightening Day” (and “Always” and IITS, both of which were late-’99 tunes), but before “Ev’ry Night,” “Modern Dukes,” and many other SS2K songs. So are all those songs technically “SS2k era,” then? Is there really a difference?
In any case, yes, “Photograph” was definitely written post-SS2k, wherever that begins/ends. In terms of songs that we’ve heard, it’s sandwiched between “Teenage Victory Song” and “Glorious Day.”
And looking at the COR, apparently write before “Photograph” Cuomo wrote a song called “Jewish Cat”…say what!?
I would say, since the SS2K songs seem to end at “The Sister Song,” and then the bulk of the green album songs start with “Photograph” / “If you want it” about 20 songs later, that’s just about where the break is. The difference, to me, is that some point in there Weezer was told by Interscope that the ss2k songs weren’t good enough, which I imahine affected his songwriting.
Perhaps Odds & Ends will afford us a glimpse or two into these “SS2K album sessions”…if there’s actually a killer studio version of “O Girl” out there, we need it!
I wonder how far those songs actually got. What was on the demo CD that Weezer sent to the label? I remember they ran a poll of fans for input as to what to include on it.
I forget! I know “Hash Pipe” was on there, but I don’t remember the others…Anyone wanna field this one? It’s interesting, because we’d know that at least those few songs reached a pretty concrete level of completion at least on the studio demo level. The band wouldn’t want to send subpar material to the label that they really feared were going to drop them after Pinkerton.
I don’t think they ever announced what was on the demo tape, but Karl did post the top 4 voted by the fans:
1. Slob
2. Preacher’s Son
3. Hash Pipe
4. O-Girl
Also, the tape was first sent to Butch Vig and Brendan O’Brien, both of whom were too busy (or at least that was the excuse) to record the album. I’d totally forgotten about that.
A second 5 song demo tape, recorded a few months later, consisted of “No More Confusin’”, “Sugar Booger”, “Don’t Let Go”, “Ayleen”, and “Cryin’ and Lonely”.
Having reviewed the history, I’d say there probably isn’t a killer studio version of “O Girl.” It didn’t make it anywhere near as far along the process as “I Hear Bells” did. The demo we already have is probably the best there is.
Really unfortunate that neither ever surfaced…Alternate/early versions of those songs would be cool, especially since two of them are unheard in any form.
I wonder if the first demo CD was just the same SS2k demos Rivers gave us. I bet they were.
And, I take back the chronology I assumed earlier. It looks like the SS2k songs were well out of contention by the time the label expressed disappointment with the album as it was taking shape. Rivers or the band must have just gotten excited about the new songs or gotten tired of the SS2k songs on their own!
I don’t think the available data shows enough to prove that SS2K songs were “out of contention” by then. New riffs and songs don’t mean they’ve moved on.
If anything, the songs being performed live are a far better indicator of what direction the band is moving for an album. From Blue to Rad, the new songs the band plays live have had a proven track record of ending up on records (even as early as Getchoo).
The band was still regularly playing SS2k material at shows all the way to Green’s release. That evidence is far more convincing to me than Rivers having made new material.
Read the archives of Karl’s Corner from summer 2000 through December 2000. He semi-regularly posted lists of the songs in contention for the album. Cross reference it with the COR. You’ll see that after the Summer tour ended, the band rehearsed a crapload of songs, including a bunch of new ones. Then a list of songs in contention was posted which included all the SS2k stuff and all the new stuff. After more paring down, another list was posted in which all the SS2k songs were gone except “Hash Pipe.” This was all before Ocasek was officially on board, before recording began, and before the label expressed any disappointment.
But wasn’t there a time when the band gave Geffen a demo/taste of what was going on before that (even just in demos), and the label said no? I thought this was something that happened several times.
The sequence of events, as I can tell from Karl’s Corner entries, goes like this:
- Band gets together and starts rehearsing.
- Band plays shows over summer, routinely playing 4 or 5 SS2k songs in every set. Everyone assumes these will make up the next album.
- Mid-tour, band assembles a demo CD with 4 SS2K songs (Slob, Hashpipe, etc). Sends this to label/potential producers? They are turned down by Butch Vig and Brendan O’Brien.
- Post-tour, the band plans on going into the studio soon, but hasn’t found a producer yet. Rivers has written a ton of new songs, nearly one per day, and the band starts learning these.
- Label tells Weezer they can’t start recording until they get a producer. They record a new demo CD of SS2K stuff (Sugar Booger, Don’t Let Go, etc).
- Around this time, Karl is also posting lists of songs in the running for the album. The first, earlier list, includes all SS2k songs + new stuff. Later lists have cut all SS2k songs but Hash Pipe.
- Ric Ocasek is hired shortly after second demo CD is mentioned by Karl. By the time he’s there, Weezer has already dropped all SS2k songs but Hash Pipe.
- Band finally starts recording in December. Label visits and is unhappy with the songs. The potential song list is reworked somewhat.
That’s a great account of history, but there are still enough gaps there that we can’t say unequivocally that the label didn’t hear something sooner. Plus, who is to say some of the label folks weren’t attending concerts at that time too?
I’m not trying to be a pain in the ass, Burgess. I just think it’s fair to say we still don’t know for certain at what point the label was exposed to the SS2k material via demos/live sets, or if they had expressed an opinion at any point in between what you’ve catalogued.
I know, I’m not saying it’s complete. It’s just what we know from their website at the time.
It seems to me like the label liked the SS2K stuff better, seeing as they heard those demos, approved an album, and then expressed disappointment at the new material.
If your theory is correct, it would completely blow my mind and alter the understood course of Weezer history.
Whoa. Heavy.
A couple of thoughts, if I may…
1. I remember reading somewhere that Cuomo had knicked the Hash Pipe riff from some rockabilly musician he knew. At the time, someone had posted a link to the band where it came from, and sure enough, they’re identical. There weren’t any other similarities between the songs, so Hash Pipe isn’t a knockoff by any means, but it was still a great demonstration of Cuomo’s ability to pick out a great hook and expand on it. Anyone else recall this?
2. Hadn’t yet seen any mention of the lyrical reference to the Beatles when Cuomo borrows the line: “I can’t help my feelings/I go out of my mind.” John Lennon sings the same words in the third verse of the song “You Can’t Do That”, a rocker from A Hard Day’s Night. You can take that for what it is, but part of me has always thought that it was one of clues surrounding Cuomo’s departure from his former songwriting philosophy.
Cuomo has always studied other forms of music, but during Blue and Pinkerton, one got the sense that Cuomo himself was still shining through his influences, be they The Pixies or Puccini. We were getting his distinct perspective. Then, Pinkerton bombed, and we all know how the story turned out. I think the choice for this particular Beatles lyrics is important because it indicates the era of their career he was studying. Help! and A Hard Day’s Night both feature songs with economic strophic structures (something we know Cuomo was into while writing TGA), tunes that rely heavily on melody and aesthetic charm for there success, and a lyrical style heavy on mixing innocent pop tropes with subtle angsty undertones.
Tell me this isn’t the formula for The Green Album.
Now, this may be the millionth time this has been rehashed, but a similar shift occurred in Billy Joe Armstrong from Green Day. The album Dookie was born from a young person who happened to be good at writing songs that earnestly reflected his feelings, and because he was offering his very direct, genuine perspective in these songs, the young listeners of the time recognized these feelings as there own and they latched on in a big way. Green Day, like Weezer of old, tapped into the zeitgeist.
Trying to shake off the pejorative pop label, Green Day released the much darker (superficially so) Insomniac, and was considered a failure in comparison to their previous release. Armstrong regrouped, studied his influences and incorporated them into his next release: Nimrod. What makes it relevant to this discussion is that it also reflects the point at which the Young Person Who Happened To Write Songs became a Songwriter, someone who is soley interested in the construction and theory of songs, regardless of their personal significance.
Tell me this isn’t exactly what happened to Cuomo after Pinkerton.
In each case, the artist was confronted by failure, the consequence being that they shielded their own egos by removing themselves from their material so that when critics judged it, they were judging the song and not the artist. These commercial failures also placed Cuomo and Armstrong also at a professional crossroads, realizing they may not be able to rely on there own artistic whims to sustain there career in the music industry. Both Cuomo and Armstrong made the decision to view their positions in their respective bands as professional obligations, a far cry from what I assume there original intentions were: to write and record good music with their friends.
With this, Cuomo transformed from a young person with a gift he was exploring into a songwriter for a band employed by a record label, from a youth into an adult. Armstrong expressed this transformation with Nimrod, using the Beatles as huge support pillar for his new creative template, and Cuomo studied Green Day as well as the Beatles when making The Green Album. The resulting reflexivity of all this is staggering…
So, yeah. Cuomo quotes Lennon in Hash Pipe.
On point 1, I believe the guy’s name is Kevin Stevenson and his band was The Shods…Song title was something like “Shoot Him Dead” or something. Kevin was in the RCB/Homie band and was understandably not thrilled when he heard “Hash Pipe”…
On point 2 about Cuomo quoting Lennon, see comments 24 and 25.
But the tangents and digressions you make for their are awesome, and one of the best comments ever posted on this board. I’ll probably cite some of it in my eventual Green Album summary post. Thanks so much for your great insight!
Many apologies for my lazy skimming of the comments section before posting the stuff about the riff and Lennon, a mistake I shant make again!
The Shods song was “Shot Himself Up”.
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