“Thought I Knew” is one of three songs off 2008′s Red Album on which Rivers Cuomo is not the lead singer. Those unfamiliar with the annals of the band’s history may not realize just how surprising it was to hear that news break in the months before the album’s release, as it hadn’t been since 1994′s Blue Album that anyone other than Cuomo received a writing credit — drummer Pat Wilson, co-writer of “My Name Is Jonas,” “Surf Wax America” and “The World Has Turned And Left Me Here” — and even then, Cuomo sang lead on those songs. The band had experimented sincerely with having other members write and sing in the sessions for Make Believe, but those songs never survived to be considered for a final tracklist.
It had been a long time coming from Brian Bell, the Weezer guitarist who submitted his first four songs to the band way back in 1998 — including two that eventually translated to his then-sideproject the Space Twins, “Butterfly Collector” and “Seventeen.” However, even though the entire band enjoyed playing these songs at rehearsal, Cuomo vetoed their consideration when it came time to submit a demo of new material to Geffen Records. The band practiced Bell’s “Yellow Camaro” during the Early Album 5 demos, and even played it live, but that was as far as he could get.
This song began as “I Thought I Knew,” a song demoed for Bell’s current sideproject, The Relationship, a very pretty, balladic kiss-off to a girl that had left him hanging. Between stabs of acoustic guitar and an unwavering piano, Bell seethes a series of half-heated apologies: “Sorry, if I caused you pain / Sorry, I forgot your name / Sorry, but you left me out in the rain.” Then, on the chorus, Bell really lits into her, singing, “Thought I knew you better than / Thought I knew who were my friends / Thought I knew, but I didn’t have a clue.” The second verse has a lovely, choral backing vocal; the bridge is simply majestic; the synth on the outro maps out a lovely string accompaniment. In a simple demo, you can already tell it’s a better song than at least 60% of the past three Weezer records. When fans figured out that a new version would be on Red, there was much joy and merriment.
Sadly, what became of that is something of a bastardization of Bell’s original demo. There’s a horrible synth-drum intro (which, the liner notes point out, Wilson came up with “in a few minutes” — big surprise there!), cheap handclaps, and a mix that sounds like something by Hootie & The Blowfish or Sugar Ray. On the plus side, Wilson — who usually drums — provides some very nice lead guitar, and the chorus benefits greatly from it. Cuomo actually says that Wilson’s playing is the best guitar on the record (and, by way of Cuomo’s stubborn refusal to offer any solos himself, he might be right). Once we get into the second verse, things are moving much smoother — the “ahhhhh” backup that adds into the chorus is pretty nice, too. But generally speaking, the song fails to realize the original demo’s lovely potential, which Bell had carefully mapped out; they could have just professionally re-recorded that arrangement, maybe had the rest of the band do that “ahhh” choir backups on the second verse, and gotten some real strings on the outro. Had they simply done that, it could have been my second favorite song on the album; as it stands, it’s in the lower half.
Bell seems to agree: in a recent interview, he states that while he “really does like Weezer’s version,” he doesn’t think it was done to the best of the song’s potential, so he wanted to pull it at the last minute. However, as he relates himself, “I was talked out of taking it off and [told] that it was important to have it on the record.” His biggest qualm with the song, as is mine, was that the beginning of the song sounded, to his ears, “like a Mountain Dew commercial” — both hilarious and spot on. Either way, perhaps Cuomo’s authoritarian tendencies haven’t subsided quite as much as fans have been lead to believe.
For the band’s recent MTV Session, they turned in a sharply-dressed version of “Thought I Knew” before a live studio audience of…squaredancers? In any case, it’s a beautiful performance — gone are the tacky intro and handclaps, and all the trappings of the studio version. Bell does a great job fronting the band, Scott Shriner’s backup harmony is quite becoming, Wilson’s lithe guitar work is like that of a seasoned session player, and Cuomo’s handling of the cocktail kit provides a pleasant, if unassuming backbeat. Apparently, the band has begun playing the song live on their tour of Japan, and I hope they give it the same kind of reading as they do here. For when they come to America, at the very least.
Bell, for his part, has turned yet another version of the song for his upcoming album with sideproject The Relationship. It used to be on their Myspace, but it was quickly removed. It’s a very nice, intimate performance of the song that does it good service. In my opinion, it is the third best version of a pretty great song, ahead of the Red version but behind the original Relationship demo (my favorite) and the MTV session version (second best). While I type these words, though, the only song on the Relationship’s Myspace — “Are You Gonna Be” — is playing in the background, and it’s quite lovely. Gonna have to nab that record when it drops.
70 Comments
You got it spot on. The song is good enough to survive all kinds of shitty production however the demos is so powerful when the choral backing vocals kick in. I also think the Weezer version adds a radio friendly vibe to it and therefore could be a modest success.
PS I can’t wait for the Relationship album, i know it will be great as i can’t get enough of the demos. Also, is it just me or could anyone see ‘Are you gonna be’ or ‘hand to hold’ as a lovely duet between Brian and Rivers?
I think it’s a decent song, but pretty tacky the way it sounds on the Red album. Still, even if it’d have been recorded like the demo, I would have objected. I think there is a point with a band’s back catalogue being somewhat coherent (well, that was too late already as of Green, but..) and this is just not Weezer to me. I hear myself coming off as an old conservative fart – sorry, can’t help it – but if they want to change the formula to such an extent, they should just regroup under a different b(r)and name. The thing is, there’s bands that do this much better. No point for Weezer to go there, they obviously can’t pull it off.
However, your analyzis of the song is brilliant.
Jonny: I agree with you to an extent, but really, at this point, I just want Weezer to make an album that’s good, and hopefully cohesive in and of itself (be it a throwback to Blue, nothing but party jams, a jazz record, whatever — as long as it’s cohesive and good). As the band seems far too scatterbrained and complacent to try to make a cohesive album ever again, I’d at least like a record that is, from start to finish, good. TIK had the potential to add to that, and I wish it had delivered. Also, the point re: bands doing this better is a bit controversial, considering you can take any band doing the pop/rock form well, and simply say “It’s good — but it’s no Beatles.” Or what have you. You don’t have to be the best ever at what you do in order to be very good at it.
John: You hit on two great points. 1) “Are You Gonna Be” WOULD sound beautiful as a Cuomo/Bell duet, and these are the pretty obvious choices/decisions the band should be making (I mean, c’mon — a tune that prominently features Cuomo’s voice on backups is the least they could do anyway — Cuomo behind the drum kit does not a Weezer song make). I mean, THE SONG EXISTS, I’m sure there was at least a demo of it floating around the band before they chose to work on TIK, and seriously, if Bell’s got a problem with how the band is approaching one of his tunes, he should pipe up a little. Like, tell Cuomo to put the damn synth drum down and stop fucking around. Screw getting dangerous, everybody needs to get focused.
Re: the song being pretty radio-friendly, this is true. But what’s being done about that? I think the band could’ve gotten a lot of press and cross-format interest if they released a single for each of the band’s members, to a different format of radio, on the same day. Cuomo’s “traditional Weezer” PnB for the alt-rock stations, CDW for hard rock/whatever fucking stupid format it is that still plays Linkin Park (’cause where else would that fucking go?), TIK for pop/adult contempo, “Automatic” for modern rock in general…you know, whatever. Sure beats the flash-in-the-pan one-two punch of PnB & “Troublemaker”…
Soy>> True. There’s always someone that does it better. But still, not many bands can pull it off, trying to be too much at once (Sparks & the Clash were close though). Not to try going off-topic on this particular song, but if you listen to the Weight (to take a recent example), it’s just so obvious that Weezer just can’t handle that kind of music (and that’s just one example). It sounds generic (not just because Scott’s awful vocal delivery), and most of all, it doesn’t swing. It also doesn’t swing when they try to go motown on songs such as Dreamin’ (or the bee/sting part of Greatest Man). Rather, it sounds like a boring covers band. That’s what I meant with there being bands doing some stuff better than others. It doesn’t have to be the best. But it has to be good.
But you’re making a good point. If they’d make a cohesive album, I’d see that as a great improvement and probably rank it as #3 regardless what it ended up sounding like. I mean, there’s something about this band (at least Rivers, Brian & Pat) that still makes me hang around a blog/forum like this, even though they’ve done basically nothing but to disappoint me since ’01.
The original Relationship demo gets a lot of praise, but I was glad to see the back of it’s “peace and harmony” line, which sounded like the sort of thing Liam Gallagher (ironically enough) would write. I may also be alone in liking the synth-drum intro despite it making most others’ ears bleed.
I don’t understand how anyone can write a glowing review of this song. It’s so incredibly lame, it’s hard where to begin. First off, Brian Bell’s vocals become so grating, I doubt any normal human being could listen to a full 40 minute album of him singing. This song ending up on a Weezer album is so preposterous, I honestly think Rivers is silently saying, through this song, “See, these guys can’t really write anything better than I can!” I will, and always will believe some of Rivers absolute WORST OF THE WORST Demos could combine to make an album better than Brian Bell could ever dream of. The only thing this song really does is further enhance the over-sized ego that Brian Bell possesses.
For anyone to wish of a repeat of this performance on future albums should really consider finding a new band to follow or just move ship and listen to all of The Relationship’s super song library.
In conclusion it’s sad to see the direction that Weezer has gone. Now going to concert, it
‘s not really Weezer, It’s “Hey, BRIAN DUDE, COME USE YOUR RAD VOCALS AND SING WHY BOTHER!!!!” Repeated for Pat and Scott. For the price that Weezer fan’s are paying to see them in concert, (I don’t know the actual price, but I’m sure it’s way overprice”) combined with the price of the Album (for those who actually bought it), It seems almost criminal for this much “rad participation and fun” to occur.
Oh yeah, all that and now a guitar tech playing with them! That RULZ!
R.I.P Weezer
Please excuse my grammatical errors.
I’m just wondering whether the longest-serving weezer fans are basically out-growing the bands music, and may gravitate towards a project like The Relationship permanently?
At this point in time surely they possess more potential than Weezer, even if that potential may not be fully realised on the upcoming record. He definately has a lighter touch than Cuomo.
This post has lead me to listen to the afformentioned ‘Are You Gonna Be’ and TIK demos for the first time, and while I wouldn’t say i’m blown away exactly, I think they will bear repeated listens and even come to be appreciated more as time goes on, the inverse of many recent Weezer material.
Brian has lots of places to go with this stuff.
Chuck: The TRA version of this song sucks, no question, but I do think the song itself had plenty of potential. If they translated it well and “Weezered” it up a bit, I would have loved it.
I do 100% agree with Weezer concerts not really being Weezer anymore. Btw, I paid $92 (not to mention train fare) and yes it fucking hurt.
Adroit: I don’t even have the Relationship demos, other than the original TIK. I’d like to hear them…
SOYREV: I give up. I don’t understand how anyone could possibly think any of Brian’s songs/voice are even close to listenable. I’d rather listen to Avant(e?)Garde, any of Maladroit, River’s really, really shitty demos and quite possibly all of Make Believe in succession than listen to the “best” songs Brian has created. But hey, I’m just one lowly Rivers Cuomo Band fan.
P.S. Is there really a reason for Weezer to make an Album 7 when it’s obvious it will probably share all of the same character traits as Album 6. Just something to think about.
Chuck – I cannot believe that much TIK hatred was just crammed into that small of a rant.
I just went back and had two very meticulous listens to the TRA version and the demo.
While the TRA version is brilliant pop that is catchy as hell and light and easy in a good way, TIK wasn’t mean to be like how it sounds on TRA.
This is a song that you spit in someone’s face. This would go on Brian’s Pinkerton, not on Brian’s TRA. They should have gone in that direction more, because this song could have been even better than the TRA version.
and meticulous wasn’t the right word for that sentence, huh?
Pat did the drum loop, not Rivers.
Chuck: Has it ever really been necessary for Weezer to make another record again, in light of Green? Sure, there have been redeeming qualities about each record in the new millennium, but none of them are good albums, as it stands. At least with the TRA sessions, for the first time since Pinkerton, I got four finished, studio-recorded and mixed/released songs that I would put on the same shelf as TBA/Pinkerton. If I can get as many out of the next disc, I’ll consider it worthwhile. I’ve long given up on Weezer ever making another great album and redeeming themselves as artists in the eyes of the press and public at large, so at this point, might as well just accept (or try to ignore) the faults and appreciate the good.
Jason: Meticulous works there, absolujtely.
Gob: You certain? I remember Cuomo saying in an interview that he played some synthdrum on the record, and TIK’s the only place I can find any instance of one…(plus, Pat’s official role on that song is lead guitar, no?)
Hey man I’d really like to hear this track. Can you point me in the direction to get this thing?
^I mean the demo version that you hold in high regard.
Weezer need to go back to recording Weezer songs. This song wasn’t even written by Rivers. It’s just a Relationship song that ended up on TRA.
I also totally agree on Weezer needing to make a cohesive record again, something they haven’t fully done since green. Imagine how amazing TRA would have been if Dreamin or TGMTEL represented the records full sound sans tunes like EGD, Troublemaker, Automatic, ect.
Finally I think the reason why the demo works better is that it is played in a minor key and is darker than the Hootie TRA version.
From the Red booklet:
“Pat came up with a drum loop literally in minutes and Rivers played drums to that.”
Chuck – Brian’s not got a great technically voice but it is pretty unique ,which i believe to be an important quality and you should really check out some of the space twins work, as it has a classic feel you don’t hear anymore. Also is it wrong that i love near all Weezer. I mean i love every album and although there not perfect there as quality pop songs that you just don’t hear that often. They have insanely catchy hooks and melodies and Cuomo’s voice has a charm i can’t deny, even ‘Cold Dark World’ has a memorable chorus and THAT hilarious line. The albums also have, if in most cases poor, proper production not like all the identikit indie going round at the moment. I can listen to any Weezer album and fell great (bar Pinkerton that makes me feel so many things).
Sorry to go off topic. On regards to other members songs I think they should have collab writing and Rivers singing all the lead.
Sorry that not much of that made sense and for the awful spelling and grammar.
Dear Jason, John and the rest of this “Blog”
This can sum up everything I’m feeling about TIK and Brian Bell in general.
It seems to me this whole charade of The Relationship is quite possibly Brian’s “attempt” to validate himself as an artist, possibly in comparison to Rivers. To the normal person this would seem a ridiculous fantasy that they could never dream to achieve. It’d be like Mike Love going up to Brian Wilson in 1966, sitting down at a piano and saying “Quick! Let’s see who can write a better song! Starting….now!” Doesn’t that sound ridiculous? I use that comparison because Brian’s vocals/songs are almost Mike Love-ish due to the fact they sound so corny you must think he’s bull-shitting but after half-a-song you realize thats how he sings.
Dear Soy Rev,
I agree that a couple of the songs on TRA are good-to-moderately great, but if we took them back to 1994-Blue Rivers or 1996-Pink Rivers and said “Look, This is what you’ll be making in 2008!” I doubt he would be happy about it. Who knows though, ya know!
Finally Jason,
This quote “While the TRA version is brilliant pop that is catchy…” If you honestly think this is “brilliant pop” you need to go divest in some real “pop” bands like Majestic, The High Llamas, ect. That is brilliant pop at it’s most ultimate form.
Thanks!
P.S. This blog is great.
Yimyecker: Can anyone help him out? If not, Yimyecker, post your email and I’ll pass it along to you…
Gob: Shit, I’ll edit the original post soon. I wonder where Cuomo played synthdrum on the record, then.
John: I do like Brian’s voice — it’s got some character to it. It can really grate though, at times, like on “Amy Magazine” or “Patterns Of Love.” And I agree, they should have done collab writing and let the other guys sing certain lines (like “Dreamin’” or TGMTEL or even EGD), but hold off on them writing and singing lead on their own songs for an album or two — you know, ease the fans into it a little, right? And ease the band into it, for that matter — clearly they made some big mistakes this time around, they just weren’t prepared.
Chuck: An attempt to validate himself? That’s a pretty unfair assumption to make — just because I play in someone else’s band, I’m not allowed to write and sing my own songs elsewhere? I understand you being pissed when one of those songs become “Weezer” per se, but in general, whether or not Brian wants to do the Relationship or Space Twins is entirely up to him. To imply otherwise is a bit dictatorial.
I don’t know man, I really do think “Ms. Sweeney,” “Pig” (although not quite recorded perfectly for TRA), “The Spider” and TAATO are a bit better or even onpar with some of TBA and Pinkerton’s weaker tracks (which is not to say they’d work better in those songs’ slots on those albums, just strictly in a case-by-case, song vs. song breakdown). They’re very adventurous songs and they all hit their mark perfectly, as far as I’m concerned. That’s the kind of “experimental, untraditional songforms” I had hoped Cuomo meant when he spoke of TRA! (“Dreamin’” and TGMTEL, not so much…though those are at least pretty cool)
Also: post a link to your favorite Majestic song and favorite High Llamas song, I’d like to hear them.
Lastly: Thanks for the props! You make some good discussion, please come by often.
“though i knew” is really lame. not that i hate it like chuck, but still. lame. “yellow camaro” was much better and sounded more weezer. best song for the band would be “goddes of love”, thought. not only it was better than any PP rivers’ song, but also actually sounded like a weezer one.
Where can I hear “Goddess Of Love”? Never heard that one.
yeah i need Goddess of Love too. And I would definitely like to hear some Majestic and High Llamas.
and Chuck, I honestly completely enjoy TIK. I really think it’s great. Maybe I’m crazy, but i’m gonna say it’s my 2nd favorite song on the record (not including deluxe songs), behind Pork and Beans. TGMTEL got old after a while, and it’s number 3 now. Anyone with me? I know there’s some A6 people who like it too.
>I really do think “Ms. Sweeney,” “Pig” (although not quite recorded perfectly for TRA), “The Spider” and TAATO are a bit better or even onpar with some of TBA and Pinkerton’s weaker tracks
i still can’t believe ANYONE can get into “ms. sweeney”. choruses are so bad. like worst aspects of make believed built into nice verses in song that goes just nowhere. “pig” is propably the best out of the four, but still – the chorus! “and now i have to die” – it just hurts how cheesy it is. and that whiplash sound when cuomo sings about a “whiplash sound”. SERIOUSLY.
My two favorite Majestic song’s are:
It’s Alright –
http://www.zshare.net/audio/190109434c4d2260/
I Was Wrong –
http://www.zshare.net/audio/190108370df90074/
The High Llama’s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2S1FvDfvBnE&feature=related
(it’s an instrumental, but pretty much is like a combination of my two of my favorite albums Pet Sounds and Friends by The Beach Boys
I know most people on here will hate it, but whatever.
P.S. ” best song for the band would be “goddes of love”, thought. not only it was better than any PP rivers’ song” I assume PP is Post-Pinkerton, if so, even that statement is so ridiculous it’s hard to fathom, it’s like you’ve never even read this blog.
They should turn this blog into a coffee-table type book, that would be cool.
Jason: I’m wondering where PKMN Trader Red is right now. I’m pretty sure TIK is his favorite song on TRA.
Low: I could reply, but I think I’ll leave that for when I actually get to those songs.
Chuck: Thanks, I’ll check those out when I’m not in section.
Regarding the coffee table book…I sure as hell wouldn’t be complaining! But I think I’m a little too critical with certain songs for anyone at the =W= camp to really get behind it (and besides, what’s the point of having a book if there’s the blog right here? Other than full-color photos, cool design, and whatever else there might be). Though, Weezer people, if you’re reading this, I’d happily cough up some non-critical copy, if you ever wanted any for whatever reason…;)
if no one uploads “goddess of love” in the next couple of hours, i will (yes, i am that tired/lazy –i have a two year old i just put to bed)…”goddess of love” really is bri bri’s best song. there are two versions out there, i can’t remember which is best – they are very similar.
as for TIK – it’s all right. i don’t really like it but it does get in my head if it pops into my head. ‘it’s easy’ would have been a better selection.
for goodness sake, let brian have his own band, it’s not like a competition as hinted at above…and i would agree there are some brian tunes that are at or near weezer quality of the classic era and easily beat much of the post 2000 stuff hands down.
his voice can get annoying when he over-emotes but when reeled in – it’s good. the dude is spot on in his back-ups, i love what he has done in the studio and live. more power to him.
oh yeah, and he’s sassy.
so where can I hear this demo version of TIK? i’ve looked in a few places, but all i can find is a live version of it from august on youtube.
Ego and Sassy can confused, sometimes.
hmm, looks like nobody can help. My email’s Hockeykid1747@aol.com thanks in advance.
>there are two versions out there, i can’t remember which is best – they are very similar.
original version from osaka aquabus 7″ is better. there’s also a 1999 demo, but it’s not as rocking.
>it’s like you’ve never even read this blog.
huh?
Good song in all it’s forms but definitely best served by the Relationship. Good shout from whoever above said that Are You Gonns Be would be a good one for Rivers to ‘get in on’. I wonder if Brian and Rivers have ever really tried collaborating on a song in a start-to-finish way. I
It must have been q
Fuck! Sorry! What I was trying to say was that it must have been quite disheartening for Brian in 1998 to have had Rivers not even want to bother trying out his songs and walking out. Maybe there’s more to it, there usually is, but that must have stung.
Yim: Sent. Hope AOL doesn’t immediately spam a 5.6mb file.
Low: jakob[dot]dorof[at]gmail[dot]com. any chance you could get me that 7″ version?
this is the way: In 1998, =W= was completely Cuomo’s band — I wouldn’t have felt too bad if it were I Bell. I’m not even sure how he got the nerve up to try to get Cuomo to do it.
There are some people on albumsix who think that ‘goddess of love’ is one of their favorites ever, and it is good. Also Brian asked for the sharing of the ‘Relationship’ demos to be stopped, so that’s why there hard to find.
Yeah, I’m not about to break the man’s rule on that — I don’t think the TIK demo I sent to Yim is so big of a deal, as it is a demo of a song that has already been officially released. And the “Goddess Of Love” track I’m asking for shouldn’t be either, as that is one old-ass (and very rare) Space Twins song — not Relationship.
The MTV version is fantastic. Also, the synth drum intro was done by Pat Wilson, who ‘came up with it in a few seconds’. Cuomo plays drums, but that Rick Roll sounding intro was the brainchild of Pat (for better or worse).
I think the worst version of this song is Brian’s “final version” that he posted on myspace a while back.
Per the frequent reminders, I’ve finally edited it to correct the synthdrum error. Thanks to all who pointed it out!
I’m pretty fond of the “final version.” It’ll be interesting to see how his new record stands up to the past four by Weezer.
The thing is, TIK is an ok song to begin with. The Weezer version is boring when compared with the oirginal demo. But there’s so many more Brian penned songs that are so much better, hell It’s Easy would have been a way better choice.
Are You Gonna Be?
Oh Allen
Mow the Lawn
Could all have been made into Weezerfied and great little pop/rock gems.
Chuck: I don’t think you got so much to come with when discussing this song if you don’t even like Brians voice or songwriting in the first place.
I love Brian and I think The Relationship have potential to make an album that’s even better and more cohesive than TRA.
Finally, the return of Melack!
Yes, “It’s Easy” > TRA TIK. But would TRA “It’s Easy” still have been better than TRA TIK? The world shall never know.
I love “Are You Gonna Be?,” and “Oh Allen” is quite good too.
The MTV version is good, except for the fact that Rivers nearly ruined it. I don’t know what he was doing on the drums that day. He’s obviously a better drummer than that…
Either way, “Thought I Knew” was great in it’s original Relationship incarnation. The newer live versions are pretty stellar, too. But I agree that the album version certainly leaves a lot to be desired. I liked the more vulnerable “I thought I knew who were my friends” line much more than “I thought I knew your intentions.” Don’t know what the point of that change was.
Thanks for the demo. I really like the build up he makes in this and the all around progressive sound of it. There’s also a couple things about it that I don’t like, like the chords that are reminiscent of Jimmy Buffett’s “Cheeseburger in Paradise” at 0:52 and 2:32 (well at least to me for some reason). All in all I like the album version better, those hand claps get me every time hahah.
Ha, not quite, Soyrev – My favorite TRA song is “The Angel and the One”. Then it’s “Automatic”, but “Thought I Knew” does take a healthy third place. I think that allowing Brian and Pat to contribute was one of the biggest mistakes Rivers made with this album: It doesn’t look good when your bandmates can suddenly write better songs than you can.
I think that the TRA version of the song is inferior only to the MTV version. When I read this entry, I went back and listened to the original Relationship demo again just because your description sounded so great. But it still seems to fall flat – it all focuses on one aspect of the song and just doesn’t have enough dynamic for me. And don’t even get me started on the “final” version – aimless and dull. Ugh.
But what we’re talking about here is the Weezer version. There’s no doubt that the synth-drum intro is corny, hence why I list the MTV version as my favorite. But one corny synth-drum intro does not a bad song make. I’ve heard many criticisms of the song changing from a minor key to a major key – but I think that that only underscores the meaning of the song. The major key verses perfectly compliment the lyrics – “Sorry for this, sorry for that, is that what you want to hear?” bullshitting – while the minor-key chorus completely rips that apart while Brian makes his true feelings known. And don’t even get me started on Pat’s guitar in this song. The textures Pat adds just from his lead guitar lines are absolutely astounding (see the transition into the chorus and the bridge). The one gripe I have with Weezer’s version of the song is the lyric change in the chorus. Brian has stated that “Thought I knew who were my friends” sounded too much like a paranoid person, which wasn’t what he was going for. But if anyone’s ever been wronged by a girl before, they know that shit will make you very paranoid! No relationships are quite the same if you’re having problems with a girl. Not only that, but “Thought I knew your intentions” just sounds so forced. But at least he got rid of the “peace and harmony” line or whatever. And the addition of the last line of the chorus is pretty cool too.
But then again, Brian’s my favorite Weezer, so can you really trust me?
“Automatic,” really! That’s pretty cool, I wouldn’t call it my second favorite on the record, probably, but it’s definitely up there. Looking forward to discussing that one…
When I listen to demos, I have a tendency to sort of “hear into” the song, like, I can tell where it’s going and I really like it. The original TIK demo does have some faults, but I can tell there’s a really beautiful song being mapped out here, and even on its own merits, I do think the demo bests the album version. I do like your point about the major/minor key transition and how it accents the meaning of the song, and yes, Pat’s lead guitar is fucking awesome on this song, but…I’m sorry, everything up through the first chorus just feels like an insult. That synthdrum intro feels like the song is tripping me — those dumb handclaps are as if it were spitting on me while I was down. Slowly, gradually, it picks me up, dusts me off, hands me $20 — but that can only help so much. The beginning just puts me in a terrible mood, and the rest of the song carries the unfortunate weight of slowly bringing me out of it.
And I really like the final version. It’s low-key, pretty. Just makes me look forward to the Relationship album all the more.
Brian’s my favorite Weezer too at this point, by a metric mile no less. More on that later!
Dear MELACK,
I will repeat this one more time. If you honestly believe your last statement, I believe you are either delusional about Brian’s “talent” or Brian Bell himself. Either one is fine, dealer’s choice.
For your own sake, I created a simple “TRA” Formula.
Current Version of “TRA” – (3 songs at end) + (Pig, Miss Sweeney, The Spider) – (Brian’s awesome LEAD vocals during “The Dream Sequence” of Dreamin’)…
If you complete that, it makes TRA slightly more cohesive but many times more enjoyable.
Dear SOYREV,
Did you ever listen to those songs I posted on here?
Cool.
Anyone have the “final” version? I missed that. I only have the demo with the “thought i knew who were my friends” lyric, the TRA version, and the MTV one.
I think I like the TRA version more than the MTV one, though. Brian doesn’t seem as into it on the MTV version.
Chuck: Relax, man. I’m all about taking an argumentative tone when the situation arises, but there’s a difference between making a point and being patronizing about it.
It’s also dead obvious that subbing out the other three guys’ songs and adding in the Deluxe Edition trifecta of glory would have made this album just about 20x better (although I’m more accepting of Brian’s vocal in “Dreamin’” — though I do think it would have been more effective if he did the backup line there, because the change of narrator…well, disrupts the narrative of the song). But hey, it’s Weezer in the 2000s, they’re pretty much obliged to fuck themselves over at every chance they can get — I’m just glad we got those songs at all, because in past instances (like Make Believe), we just straight-up didn’t get those songs. You can probably thank your man Brian Bell for ever getting to hear “Sweeney,” “Pig” and “The Spider,” actually.
I did listen to the songs you posted and I quite enjoyed them, although they’re not exactly my bag. (Beach Boys are fucking amazing though, and one of the most underrated bands of all time) Still, I may check into one of them sometime…
I don’t really get all the love for The Spider.
I’ll make a case for that one, sooner or later.
Could someone please link me up to seventeen, I’ve never heard of that one and i would like to.
long time coming, sorry for the delay soy – and anyone else that was interested…
take your pick i was busy/lazy whatever.
here are my two favorite space twins tunes – if somehow bri bri is in the house and he wants me to take them down i will. there is a older Goddess of Love but they sound similar – but i like this one better:
Goddess of Love (2000): http://www.sendspace.com/file/7ydwlo
Osaka Aquabus: http://www.sendspace.com/file/i4n3g7
Enjoy…although now that i am listening to the old s.t. stuff, i forgot how good they are.
“Goddess of Love” is pretty cool shit, although I kind of fear if Weezer would be able to realize the potential there well…after the TIK debacle, I’m not quite sure. (Though keep the studio’s synthdrum collection out of reach and you might be okay)
“Osaka Aquabus” is a little too derivative for me — unless it was meant to be no more than a modest experiment in late-period Beatles mimicry. He even nicks a good chunk of the vocal melody from “Strawberry Fields Forever.”
I still like this song more that most of the tunes on Red standard.
The live version that was filmed of this is especially fantastic. Brian should be proud that his song stands out as one of the better songs put on an official album in the last 10 years.
I just really hate the production/intro of the Red version. Ensures that I seldom seek it out.
The production of this song bothers you, yet, you can stand to listen to anything on Raditude?
The production is certainly cleaner than I prefer it to be too, but it’s not obnoxious and Pat’s guitar lines still come off pretty sharp. Brian’s vocals are kind of loud in the mix, but it’s not overbearing. There’s no “auto-tune” going on, or at least anything that’s super noticeable ala Can’t Stop Partying.
What exactly is it that bothers you in the production so much?
It sounds too glossy on the whole, which I can stand, but I hate the way the handclaps sound. And the entire synthdrum/laser intro is simply horrid — as someone said on A6 once about many other Red tracks, “If it came on in the car while I was with other people I feel like I would have to explain myself.”
It just sounds like it was mixed to sound like Sugar Ray or Sheryl Crow or some shit.
I don’t even mind the laser drums on this, but Brian’s delivery is way too keyed up. And getting shout-y in the final chorus ruins the best part of the song, the melody of “thought I knew / but didn’t have a clue” and that great guitar line. I’ve always thought it’s a much more sedate song than the version he’s singing.
Brian would agree with you, Danup. He didn’t want the Weezer version to be released because he felt he found a better (more low-key) way of doing it with the Relationship. Rivers pressured him into putting it on Red anyway, though.
Speaking of which Brian, 2009′s pretty much done. Where the fuck is that album, already?
“Brian’s delivery is way too keyed up”
Yeah, I have to agree. For some reason the vocals really bug me on this song.
What you describe as “Keyed up” on this track would be considered subtle on Raditude.
I disagree—say what you will about Raditude, and I won’t say a lot because I’m really pretty fond of it, but Rivers doesn’t really get in the way of the melody on any of the songs. Except maybe Put Me Back Together, which I’m on the record as planning to never listen to again.
Simply put, Brian watched the band push his song into a direction he wasn’t entirely comfortable with, then did his best to sing the part as well as he could. It doesn’t sound genuine because it isn’t.
The fact that Brian actually played “his version” of this song with the Relationship when they opened for Weezer on the Troublemaker tour is kind of hilarious. (I wonder if the lack of Brian songs on Raditude was due to him saving them for himself and preventing what happened to TIK happening again.)
I didn’t mind “Thought I Knew” at first (it survived my somewhat heavy-handed “not-ripping-all-tracks-to-iTunes” policy), but I think now it varies based on what mood I’m in when it comes on. It has a definite “for-popular-radio” production style which puts me off a bit. It’s also one of the (numerous) Weezer songs where I’ve questioned how much I would like it if it wasn’t them. While I certainly don’t think it’s /bad/, I’m not sure that I’d even rate it otherwise.
I’m glad you linked to that MTV session – I hadn’t seen/heard that before, and while it doesn’t really stray from the album version I think it does sound nicer (slightly more natural-sounding) . Then again, that could just be psychological due to the addition of performance footage.
I like the songs from The Space Twins’ “No Show” EP (the title track in particular) – it’s pretty sloppy and lo-fi, but to me it has a very “Kitchen Tapes” vibe to it. I remember I had a RealAudio file of the song on a floppy disk (this was back when almost all downloadable songs on the internet were in .ra format rather than .mp3!), but I only rediscovered it recently when looking through stuff in either the ATW media gallery or file request board.
(Hmm, come to think of it, that file must have had the absolute shit compressed out of it if I was able to fit it on a floppy.)
Clonus: I doubt it — as both an artist and a capitalist, I’m sure Brian knows that a song he writes will reach more people (and wallets) if it’s placed on a Weezer album.
Karl mentioned that he knows that Brian submitted song(s) for consideration to what wound up becoming Raditude (he wasn’t sure about Scott; doubtful), but they were either completely disregarded or, at best, a part of the album that was going to be made with Jackknife and changed once Butch Walker entered the picture to help fuck things up a little. If I were Brian, I’d be rather pissed Cuomo turned my stuff down and proceeded to collaborate with every yacko under the sun (and to release the results of several); if I were Pat, I would be embarrassed that my song sucked so fucking badly (although I do like “Automatic”).
AF: Your comment about TIK’s “for-popular-radio” production reminded me of a cool and innovative promotional campaign that could’ve worked in Red’s favor. TIK sounds like the kind of thing those soft-rocky Sheryl Crow stations might play; “Cold Dark World” is Weezer for nu metal dipshits; “Automatic” sounds like the kind of modern rock that classic rock stations play; “Everybody Get Dangerous” and “Pork and Beans” could get a lot of plays on alternative radio (and one of them did); “Troublemaker” and “Heart Songs,” while unlikely bets, could’ve had a chance on the pop dial; and “The Angel and The One” sounds like a college/indie radio song of choice, especially if you put “Miss Sweeney” and “Pig” on the b-side. They could’ve released a bunch of these as radio singles and simply targeted a different demographic/format with each one — it would be a move that, at the least, would garner a lot of press attention.
Definitely. Although, not Troublemaker. That one kinda falls in the too-rock-for-pop-radio, but too-pop-for-rock-radio category.
I honestly dont understand how Heart Songs didnt get a single release. That was EASILY the best bet.
This may have been mentioned before, but I was in two different restaurants weeks after Red was released, and Heart Songs was playing in both of them. I could easily see TIK being used in a similar fashion. I wonder if Weezer just didn’t want those songs to be singles, considering they bypassed them for TGMTEL, after which they gave up and moved on to Raditude.
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