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O Girl

Not to be confused with Green Album closer “O Girlfriend,” this song surfaced live during the initial reunion tour in the summer of 2000, and was briefly considered for that same album (funnily enough, the era also produced a song called “Girlfriend,” which has nothing to do with “O Girlfriend” or “O Girl” — it has yet to surface). The song was issued on the semi-official, free MP3 Summer Songs 2000 compendium, a live collection of songs from that era. The fact that only one of these songs actually made Green (“Hash Pipe”) speaks to Rivers Cuomo’s ridiculous spate of productivity during this time (caveat: “Dope Nose” and “Slob” were both later rehashed for Maladroit).

The official SS2K version is a blistering live performance — to again reference Brian Bell’s “Hard Day’s Night meets Helmet” quotation about this rehearsal period, the verses do actually sound like a hard rock take on early Beatles, and the chorus does have a dark bent to it. The harmonies that introduce the song are a bit weak here, but on paper they’re fantastic: Weezer has always been a very talented vocal band, and the absence of these kind of touches would be sorely felt on Green. Bassist Mikey Welsh’s falsetto nod to original foil Matt Sharp on the chorus is particularly fitting.

The lyrics are of the typical Green era love song formula, but despite their simplicity they’re actually quite good. I especially enjoy the chorus: “Oh girl, I thought you were a flirt / And too shallow to get hurt / But now, I see in your eyes / The pain that can’t be just lies / You’re like me.” The three-part vocal arrangements in this song are at their best here, elevating the sentiment’s effect.

The solo is perfect – clearly predating the Green period during which Cuomo decided to simply echo the vocal melody with all of his (very brief) guitar spotlights. The fact that this is just one more fine feature in a song that is, less the brief intro, here and gone in approximately 1 minute and 50 seconds, bespeaks a concision not heard since “You Gave Your Love to Me Softly.”

There’s another live bootleg (of considerably worse fidelity) in circulation on a fan-made compilation that has been dubbed “Unofficial Live SS2K” in some circles. It’s not particularly remarkable, aside from being a little less trim. There’s also the studio demo that we have (from May 3, 2000, a date that produced four songs — all of which we’ve heard, other than “You’re Fun to Play With”) balloons to a considerably longer 2:40 — clearly before Rivers decided it was worth truncating. Pat Wilson does great work on this version, with some particularly incisive cymbal work, and many of the chorus guitar leads are more developed (and audible). The exclamatory “yow!” right before that classic Weezer duel guitar solo is a nice touch, too. This demo, along with the official SS2K live cut, are the definitive versions of those we have to date.

Also, going back to all these Mikey-period songs and relistening to them with a decent subwoofer makes me realize just how perfect he was for the band. Here he does a cool little riff at the end of every line, which really helps fill out the arrangement and give it more of a propulsive verve. Discounting the sentimental associations with Matt Sharp (and the fact that he played during the band’s best creative period), Welsh is arguably the best bassist Weezer ever had.

Everything Green should have been? Absolutely.

45 Comments

  1. s.o.s. wrote:

    This is easily one of my favorite SS2K cuts. I’ve always wondered/marveled at what Green could have sounded like if its songs were more like O Girl (and the rest of the official SS2K tracks).

    Friday, July 25, 2008 at 12:39 pm | Permalink
  2. Soyrev wrote:

    One thing I failed to mention is that these tracks must have come as some surprise after the direction suggested by the “Velouria” cover just a year prior…But songs like “O Girl” show that they were still on a great track, indeed.

    Friday, July 25, 2008 at 12:43 pm | Permalink
  3. Art Vandelay wrote:

    After reading this blog and digging out that studio demo, it’s pretty clear to me that the chorus lyrics are actually:

    o girl, I thought you a flirt
    and too shallow to get hurt
    but now I see your eyes
    the pain that can’t be just lies
    you’re like me

    Friday, July 25, 2008 at 12:50 pm | Permalink
  4. Soyrev wrote:

    I’m not sure if the SS2K live version has the “flirt” line or not (sure doesn’t like it), but you’re right that that’s definitely what’s going on with the demo, and I have amended my entry with your transcription. I like those lyrics even more now! Many thanks to you, awesome work. 🙂

    Friday, July 25, 2008 at 12:56 pm | Permalink
  5. GumbyTom wrote:

    Soy, I like your “blistering live performance” description of OG, because that’s exactly what this song is. This is hard driving rock that deals with the (at the time) usual Weezer subject matter, relationships, but in a more confident way.

    I remember when the live version of this first surfaced getting into a discussion with a friend about the direction Weezer was taking. This song sounded confident and ballsy. Rather than backing down and admiring from afar, Rivers sounded like he was actually taking charge of the relationship and acknowledging that his girl is just as weak as he. At a time when the modern rock airwaves were filled with brainless cock rock, this (and songs like Preachers’ Son) took that attitude, but added so much more.

    I’m glad that we did get the official version of this (and most of the other SS2K songs)–because most of the audience recorded versions were of horrible quality. At the time, the band was leery of music sharing (and this was the first tour they were on where they faced the possibility of their songs being shared hours after the show ended), and they admitted to changing the lyrics from show to show, just to mess with us.

    As great as the solo is, for me, what makes this song is Pat’s drum fill right after the solo- it’s concise, but drives the solo home. Who am I kidding? All the playing on this track is great.

    Friday, July 25, 2008 at 2:45 pm | Permalink
  6. tapegun wrote:

    i have to disagree that those are the “definitive” versions…i have been partial to the 6/21 performance, which is a quality recording as well. it features slightly different lyrics and i can post them if folks want…i love song, for me it easily matches the “golden” era songs.

    i think this blog is making me re-live all those “what-ifs” i had stopped thinking about since 2005. ARGH.

    still don’t understand how weezer thought this would NOT fit or sound well on green. it’s is beyond me. it could have easily mixed things up on the second half of green when some of the songs just start to blend together.

    Saturday, July 26, 2008 at 5:35 am | Permalink
  7. Soyrev wrote:

    Tapegun, can you upload the 6/21 performance perhaps? I don’t believe I’ve ever heard it.

    And I agree, I was actually just thinking yesterday, how great would this have been on side two of TGA? To hear this song tear out right after KDDO (or perhaps in place of it) would be so perfect.

    Saturday, July 26, 2008 at 7:42 am | Permalink
  8. tapegun wrote:

    having listened to it again this morning, the quality is okay but it’s really better than anything i have heard from bootleggers at the time. i am also uploading the version of Preacher’s Son from the same show. I might have Dope Nose from this show on an old back-up CD if anyone is interested.

    Anyway, enjoy!

    O-Girl:

    http://www.sendspace.com/file/6onaej

    Preacher’s Son:

    http://www.sendspace.com/file/auqvjg

    I have a decent sized SS2K collection (usually I just saved the new songs because I didn’t have a large hard-drive)…so I may be able to help out from time to time if I have different versions of SS2K songs…

    Saturday, July 26, 2008 at 11:41 am | Permalink
  9. Soyrev wrote:

    You know, I just got to thinking about how SS2K must have been the best time to be a Weezer fan. The shows were energetic and fun (and relatively intimate), the setlists were fantastic, the new songs weren’t all great but a lot of them were, and the band’s future was filled with nothing but hope. Plus, they were in a really grateful and playful mood — “they’re trading our new songs within hours, so let’s change the lyrics a little every night to make it hard for them to sing along!” How cool is that? A far cry from a year later, when pissed-off Rivers would be subjecting audiences to a slew of new material and half of TGA before even playing one pre-2000 track (and even then, only playing 4 or 5 of them). Didn’t take long for it to go to his head.

    I like this version of “O Girl” you’ve posted, but no more or less than the other two great ones already mentioned, really (though the official one does have superior sound quality). That “Preacher’s Son” is really great though. They were on that night!

    Also good to hear you’ve got some extra SS2K versions on hand. Please feel free to toss them into the mix everytime an SS2K song comes up.

    Saturday, July 26, 2008 at 11:54 am | Permalink
  10. Sick Nick wrote:

    I loved O Girl when I first heard it in the summer of 2000. Still one of my favorite ss2k tracks (Slob, Superstar, O Girl). I asked Pat after the NYC show if Slob was going to be on the 3rd album, “i’m sure it will” then I asked about O Girl and he perked up and responded with “Dude, O Girl Rips!”. Clearly loved by the man.

    Saturday, July 26, 2008 at 2:18 pm | Permalink
  11. Martin wrote:

    “O Girl” is the “No One Else” of all post Pinkerton Weezer.

    Entering with a building harmony akin to “Twist and Shout”, O Girl quickly explodes into a fast rocker. The drums are brilliant and grooving, the guitars mimic the patterns of Rivers vocals, and the bass is grinding.

    Surely, everyone knows a girl like the one in “O Girl”. The girl who seems like she’s completely oblivious to any kinds of emotion, sincere attachment and heartbreak. What is great about the song to me is the imagery the song strikes up. I can vividly see Rivers approaching a crying girl curious as to why she looks so sad. The song is set up in a Verse – Verse – Bridge format, much the way songs like Crazy One and early Beatles tunes are.

    Each verse adds a segment to the story of this poor heartbroken girl. Then, during the bridge, Pat changes his rocking drum beat to a more relaxed ride beat as Rivers sings “O Girl, I thought you were a flirt and too shallow to get hurt,” as Mikey croons falsetto reminiscent of the great ones provided by Matt years ago. As the melodies rise and Brian chimes in harmonies, Rivers declares that the girl is much like him; a realistic girl with emotions. “You’re like me,” Rivers declares, as the other members chime in a building harmony over his.

    It’s an absolute shame that “O Girl” never made it to an album. It’s an example of Weezer at the top of their game.

    Saturday, July 26, 2008 at 5:07 pm | Permalink
  12. Soyrev wrote:

    Fantastic writeup, Martin. Really appreciated your comment — and you’re right/I’m wrong, there’s no chorus here. Just verse, verse & bridge. So cool!

    Saturday, July 26, 2008 at 10:04 pm | Permalink
  13. Martin wrote:

    Hahaha no I wasn’t trying to call you out or anything. I suppose one could label them anyway they wanted to. I love posting here and reading your write-ups.

    Sunday, July 27, 2008 at 12:27 pm | Permalink
  14. GumbyTom wrote:

    2000 was a great summer, if only because of the promise of what lay ahead (especially considering that many had called the band dead a few years earlier).

    But for the best time to be a fan, I’d have to say ’02. We got a ton of free songs, some of which were old demos, the band (mostly Rivers) started reaching out to the fans online, and even let us hang with them after the shows. I also liked the idea of using the 12-sided die to make the setlist, because, if anything, it meant we’d hear something different than what was played in a different city the night before.

    The main reason I’m not as stoked about ’00 was because back then, I was on dialup, and for the most part, the sound quality of the bootlegs wasn’t as good.

    Sunday, July 27, 2008 at 3:48 pm | Permalink
  15. Soyrev wrote:

    Oh man Gumbytom, the 12-sided die idea was so great (with an added bonus for the “In the Garage” reference!). Is there any place online where a list of those setlists are archived? Or better yet, a place I could get some of those shows? I’m sure those resulted in some pretty interesting performances. Wasn’t the new “Butterfly” jam borne out of that process?

    Sunday, July 27, 2008 at 10:12 pm | Permalink
  16. GumbyTom wrote:

    I actually replied to your post on a6 before coming here. I have a lot of shows, especially ones from that era.

    Not sure what you’re referring to the electric Butterfly, or something else. If it’s the electric version, they first did that for a few shows in Japan in ’01, I believe.

    Monday, July 28, 2008 at 4:08 am | Permalink
  17. ThomYorke wrote:

    Electric Butterfly also excisted during the Mala tours – one being an 02′ Chicago show.

    Tuesday, July 29, 2008 at 11:02 am | Permalink
  18. ProdigyLover wrote:

    Haha. I remember dl-ing O-Girl on Napster way-back-when and thinking, “Wow! The next album’s going to rock!”

    It’s a hooky, catchy, tight pop song — but it has an edge that Green sorely lacks.

    Tuesday, July 29, 2008 at 10:35 pm | Permalink
  19. Soyrev wrote:

    An official TVS “The Very Best” selection.

    Monday, August 11, 2008 at 11:49 am | Permalink
  20. brado8 wrote:

    I love this song. Definitely one of my favorite Weezer tunes.

    Wednesday, October 29, 2008 at 2:07 pm | Permalink
  21. Chuck wrote:

    Very Good, yes. Very Best, no.

    Wednesday, November 26, 2008 at 2:42 pm | Permalink
  22. Chuck wrote:

    I forgot to mention the fact that Michael’s falsetto isn’t even in the same universe as Sharps.

    Wednesday, November 26, 2008 at 2:45 pm | Permalink
  23. Soyrev wrote:

    Chuck: My definition of “The Very Best” is not as conservative as some may like. This is most certainly one of the best straightup pop tunes the band has ever done, period — maybe the very best from the Green era. Of course, I’m not saying this is as good as “Across the Fucking Sea” — if I kept everything in The Very Best to that kinda standard, there would be like 5 fucking songs in there. So think of a song like “O Girl” being in the lower end of The Very Best spectrum, but still fuckin’ great.

    And okay, Sharp’s falsetto was and always will be infallible — no one in Weezer, not even Cuomo himself, could come close. But Mikey certainly did a fine impression, one very worth commending.

    Wednesday, November 26, 2008 at 7:34 pm | Permalink
  24. brado8 wrote:

    “Here he does a cool little riff at the end of every line which really helps fill out the song and give it more of that head-bobbin’, hip-shakin’ verve.”

    That’s one of my favorite parts of the song. Great stuff!

    Saturday, January 3, 2009 at 12:59 am | Permalink
  25. Soyrev wrote:

    Ahh! What a fuckin’ great, underrated track! I hope we get some kind of home demo if it or somesuch, someday.

    Tuesday, October 27, 2009 at 2:58 pm | Permalink
  26. Melack wrote:

    Weezer goes “A Hard Day’s Night”
    It’s brilliant. I love TGA, but I wish it would sound more like this song. Faster tempo!

    Wednesday, October 28, 2009 at 2:28 am | Permalink
  27. Burgess wrote:

    I wish this had been recorded by 90s Weezer!

    Wednesday, October 28, 2009 at 6:59 am | Permalink
  28. Soyrev wrote:

    Faster tempo, and simply better songwriting/arrangement! This song is actually developed.

    Wednesday, October 28, 2009 at 11:13 am | Permalink
  29. Soyrev wrote:

    Just now realizing that all the “O”/”Oh” song titles Rivers Cuomo was doing around this time may have been inspired by Cheap Trick.

    Wednesday, February 10, 2010 at 11:08 pm | Permalink
  30. thegreatestscorch wrote:

    o girlfriend has to be the best album closer since butterfly. i really am caught between whats best o girlfriend, or angel and the one. they both are great on such differnt levels

    Thursday, February 11, 2010 at 1:04 pm | Permalink
  31. Soyrev wrote:

    “O Girlfriend” (2001) and “The Angel and The One” (2008) can both be ‘the best closer since “Butterfly”‘…that just implies that “Angel” is better than “Girlfriend.” 😛

    If we’re talking Toronto arrangement, it might be a tighter race. But “Girlfriend” as it is on the album pales in comparison to “Angel,” I feel. Both are great, though. And I do think there is something to be said for the Rad version of “Let You Go,” hate it though some may.

    Thursday, February 11, 2010 at 1:20 pm | Permalink
  32. thegreatestscorch wrote:

    Personally i feel that the production ruin ed the song for me. I like raditude honestly just that version of the song didnt do it for me

    Friday, February 12, 2010 at 4:11 am | Permalink
  33. Jamekae wrote:

    Brian Bell said on a ustream interview a few days ago that Miss Sweeney along with O Girl are two songs that he wishes would’ve made an album proper; the man’s got taste! Let’s hope he can coerce Rivers a little for when DTFM2’s tracklist is being decided 😀

    Saturday, June 11, 2011 at 10:06 pm | Permalink
  34. Soyrev wrote:

    There’s really no reason not to have put this song on Green. So damn good. I remember hearing that Pat loves it, too.

    Sunday, June 12, 2011 at 6:58 pm | Permalink
  35. Jamekae wrote:

    O Girl has way too much character and would’ve exposed Rivers’ treachery. Realistically, the song probably would’ve replaced Knock-Down Drag-Out which I’m not that comfortable with. O Girl is definitely the superior song, but I think KDDO works better in the context of Green. Also, I don’t think O Girl and O Girlfriend being on the same tracklist would’ve really worked.

    Monday, June 13, 2011 at 4:27 am | Permalink
  36. Soyrev wrote:

    Great points all. I’m sure they could’ve found an alternate title for “O Girlfriend” if needed — though I think keeping the titles as they are would’ve been a pretty funny little joke.

    And yeah, KDDO does fit Green better as it is — and I do love that song. But even subbing that one off to accommodate “O Girl” would’ve made the album better. Ain’t nothing wrong with KDDO being a great b-side…Though ideally, “O Girl” could have replaced “Glorious Day” or “Crab:” two songs that I dig, but wouldn’t mind subbing out.

    Monday, June 13, 2011 at 10:09 am | Permalink
  37. SS2K PUNK wrote:

    Without a doubt one of SS2K’s defining moment. Compared with the other ten tracks on the album I would rank O Girl with Mad Kow and Too Late To Try as being the best songs off of SS2K.

    I just love how pretty and short the song is. It’s at once so stylish, capturing that romantic, all hook, no filler approach Coulms was taking at the time. At the same time it’s so tight, in both structure and performance this is one hell of an efficient song.

    From the onset gorgeous melody after gorgeous melody comes absolutely surging out the speakers flanked with 50/60’s harmonies and 90’s alterna guitars laying texture over the ska punk rhythm section.

    Soy I totally agree, Mikey proves how perfect he was for Weezer with this song (as well as with the vibe he lends the rest of the SS2K period in my opinion, including IITS, Always and Brightening Day), especially for the stoned skater sound they embraced with their SS2K era output.

    His bass just bounces around so happily with those wonderfully simple little hook he tacks on at the end of every line. I think that’s the dominant theme of SS2K, experimenting with musical simplicity in order to create the most melodic songs possible via rocking the hell out of streamlined power pop.

    Whereas with Green Cuomo had gone for no emotion, he wasn’t necessarily shying away from emotion with the SS2K, his priority was just focused on melodicism and tight song structure above all else.

    That difference is key here and the Weez’s famous energy during this point in their career absolutely sells the song. It’s hard to elevate a perfect pop song to even higher levels of awesomeness, but with their sleek, punky delivery Weezer does just that here.

    Maybe it’s unfair of me to do so, but I’ve always attributed that rocking out to Mikey’s influence. I always find myself jamming along to the bass more than anything else with the SS2K era songs and most of Green as well. I really wish there was more Mikey era stuff released! I feel like he gets a bad rap sometime because he was just around for one album.

    I might be clearly speaking for myself here, but I love SS2K way more than Green, and think it a superior listen. I think it works better as an album. It’s all cohesively tide together with Rivers’ attempt at writing the perfect pop/rock song by combining 50/60’s pop with 90’s alternative rock as well as the unique punk-pop aural aesthetic Weezer gives these songs. “Hard Day’s Night with big guitars indeed.”

    I’m making no claims that SS2K’s bubblegrunge is on the level of Pinkerton or Blue, but I do think it’s in the same ballpark songwriting wise. Rivers’ always had a place in his heart for super short and fast pop songs, and I think SS2K stands as his definitive statement as a popsmith.

    Is hearing Weezer pull of a pop punk record a little jarring? Possibly. I’ve always thought that’s why some fans seem to love the record, some seem ambivalent towards it, and many seem to even dislike the album. I don’t see that as a statement about the material itself, but more so a statement about Weezer’s fanbase.

    I don’t think the average Weezer fan is that into Skate Punk. Considering how much of an anomaly SS2K is in Weezer’s catalog (I’d compare it to Homie in the sense that it seems to be a unique musical identity from Blue and Pink, in the way that David Bowie constantly reinvents himself), I think that is a safe assumption. I think Green sounds more like the band that made the Blue album, yet I think SS2K would have been the better comeback record.

    Punk Pop was huge in the early 2000’s, and this album could have lead the charge. Clearly Hash Pipe could have moved units. Dope Nose and My Brain were both eventually singles (with Slob eventually getting it’s own music video), and I think O Girl would have killed it on the radio. This album easily could have carried the third wave of ska into the new millennium while also embracing the twee end of punk pop bubbling up in the indie world. Imagining the possibilities had SS2K been produced by the guy who did Blink 182’s big record as he was originally intended to do, according to Karl, is just mind blowing.

    As it stands, SS2K is somewhat of a hidden gem in the Punk Pop subgenre of power pop, similar to the albums by Wolfie spinoff the Like Young (if you like SS2K, check this band out!). Regardless, SS2K is without a doubt my favorite Weezer album. I freely admit that Pinkerton towers over SS2K, but then again Pinkerton towers over a lot of records.

    I listen to SS2K more than any other Weezer album, like ev’ry nite with a hash pipe 😉 Think I’ve ranted enough.

    Question to you Soy, will you do a full album retrospective of SS2K and Weezer’s other unreleased albums like SFTBH, Homie, Fallen Soldiers/early album five acoustic, etc,? I’d be real interested in stuff like that and the good mala demos (o if only we had got a rawkin solo drenched riff fest instead of a pandering, schizophrenic outing of kind of bland proportions) and the original post-pinkerton concept of album 3 (“http://weezer.com/forum/topics/weezer-albums-that-never-were”, great article on said album, part 2 covers Homie and part 3 covers SS2K for all those interested).

    Sunday, July 3, 2011 at 9:01 pm | Permalink
  38. SS2K PUNK wrote:

    Also wanna say that the fact that such intricate three part harmonies are being pulled off here and breakneck speed while one guitar goes power chord crazy, the other lays atmospherics all over the place, with the bass janglingin melodies like mad is pretty impressive considering this is a live cut of a new song. Also mad props to pat’s punktastically intense drumming and simple yet intricate ska/rocksteady fills throughout.

    With Green, I kept wanting an album of YGYLTMS style songs all tied together with a unique album aesthetic in the way Blue had acoustic guitars and harmonicas; and Pinkerton had feedback, slide guitars, and everyone shouting at a mic together. With SS2K, I at least feel like I got that: an album of pure, perfect pop with a unique aural identity that perfectly ties the songs together into a unified whole flowing over with hooks galore. The perfect testament to Cuomo’s gift for melody and pop songcraft.

    Sunday, July 3, 2011 at 9:13 pm | Permalink
  39. Soyrev wrote:

    Great comments, SS2K Punk. Love the term “bubblegrunge,” though I’d use that to describe “Trampoline” more than I would SS2K.

    “Whereas with Green Cuomo had gone for no emotion, he wasn’t necessarily shying away from emotion with the SS2K, his priority was just focused on melodicism and tight song structure above all else.”

    A good, often overlooked point.

    “Maybe it’s unfair of me to do so, but I’ve always attributed that rocking out to Mikey’s influence. I always find myself jamming along to the bass more than anything else with the SS2K era songs and most of Green as well. I really wish there was more Mikey era stuff released! I feel like he gets a bad rap sometime because he was just around for one album.”

    I too feel like Mikey’s presence was a clear influence on the early ’00s Weezer sound. Even when Rivers moved into Maladroit material, Mikey’s presence kept it grounded in a more friendly, pop punk, stoner, humorous tone (check out the early live versions of “American Gigolo”). Mikey was a great pop/rock bassist, much better in that regard than Scott is (sure, Scott can outshred Mikey, but when would Weezer ever need bass shredding? when would anyone?).

    “Imagining the possibilities had SS2K been produced by the guy who did Blink 182′s big record as he was originally intended to do, according to Karl, is just mind blowing.”

    Neat point, though Weezer’s music at this point in time lacked the one thing blink182 had in spades: bathroom humor. Even “Fun Time,” which is the closest =W= gets to the band responsible for a title like Enema of the State, doesn’t have the right sound/type of jokiness that made blink182 so commercially potent. (A lot of Rivers’ songwriting has always been from an immature perspective, but with songs like “What’s My Age Again?” blink explicitly reveled in it.) Not to mention kids like fresh faces, and Weezer were already known as being the nerd rock guys, not the immature skater guys…

    “Question to you Soy, will you do a full album retrospective of SS2K and Weezer’s other unreleased albums like SFTBH, Homie, Fallen Soldiers/early album five acoustic, etc?”

    Possibly. Or they’ll just be a part of the big album megaposts. If I ever get there, obviously.

    “With Green, I kept wanting an album of YGYLTMS style songs all tied together with a unique album aesthetic in the way Blue had acoustic guitars and harmonicas; and Pinkerton had feedback, slide guitars, and everyone shouting at a mic together.”

    Great point. I just don’t think SS2K nailed that the way you do; it’s nice, but aside from certain highlights, I’d say Green is better.

    Tuesday, August 2, 2011 at 12:41 pm | Permalink
  40. SS2K PUNK wrote:

    o me o my, do I ever love Trampoline! perfect little pop songs don’t get much perfect and simple than that! Another fantastic Mikey era tune, consider me looking forward to your eventual post on Trampoline and “EVERYONE!” W’s first stab at a third album/the RCB stuff is just mindblowing. I’d kill for an album made up of Baby, Rosemary, Trampoline, Crazy One, 1000 years and so on. On the plus side a good bit of that stuff has been released in some form now. If we’re lucky the rest will be forthcoming, and Mikey’s bass parts will remain intact…

    And speaking of the term “bubblegrunge,” I felt so clever when I “coined” that for the SS2K sound. Then about a day later I read the same term in a Velocity Girl review… But on the plus side Velocity Girl is face melting awesomeness so I guess that’s a good thing? although i dunno if I’d ever relate them to grunge since they had a hand in noise and dream pop since the days of Black Tambourine, but that’s besides the point.

    I agree with you hardcore about Mikey. Poor guy never gets enough credit, which is sad. Everyone seems to view him as just the guy who did Green, when in reality he did so much more! His impact is clearly felt on the early album 3 attempts/RCB stuff. If I’m not mistaken, he also had a hand in Homie. Clearly I’m a fan of his SS2K work. Sounds like as far as bassists go, Mikey was there for some of the very best music Cuomo has ever pulled off. It’s not his fault Cuomo keeps the good stuff in the vault these days… Don’t get me wrong, love Scott, but Mikey will always be my favorite.

    I love his take on the early mala stuff. and not just cause I’m one of the W fans that prefer the unreleased PP albums.

    I think it’s telling that Burndt Jam originated with him in the band fully formed as it is imo the prettiest mala moment (unless you count the single version of Keep Fishin, with sounded more green than Mala anyways). the wordless vocals and bong hits certainly ground the song perfectly for me. 🙂

    And i think Jerry Finn (the guy who did Enema) would have made SS2K a hit. While I agree about your point that W doesn’t really fit the jokiness that made Blink, I think Finn would have taken them in a different direction. The guy produced a diverse array of punk pop bands (Green Day and Rancid o my!), and I think he would have found the perfect fit for W’s SS2K material.

    I at least feel SS2K would have been more warmly greeted than Green was. less gloss, more rock, actual (and at times dueling) guitar solos, more interesting harmonies, and more hardcore guitars. Most importantly of all, there is an emotional arc.

    the album starts off strong by establishing SS2K era W’s skater punk persona, Slob makes a great peak of emotional depth (especially compared to the entirety of green) and TLTT is the perfect ending. while it might not be nearly as intense as Pinkerton, SS2K has an emotional flow, whereas Green has no emotion. songs like On the Edge have intesity and depth, I can;t help but feel the passion of songs like Mad Kow.

    In my mind, at their best Weezer is inventive power pop with loads of emotion. Blue and Pink and SS2K all fit in this category, Green does not. Granted, these are all just my ruminations which have no basis in reality since Green was released and all we have to speak on SS2K’s behalf is a semi live album.

    Again, not saying SS2K is on the level of Blue and Pink, but to me it’s more worthy to be their follow up since it features some of the bizarre left turns that make good W so damn interesting (granted in a very streamlined and melodic sense).

    Or maybe I just like SS2K so much cause I grew up skateboarding and smoking…

    let me put it this way, name a moment on SS2K half as bad as the worst moments on all the W albums to follow…. in that since, I think SS2K stands up pretty well.

    Tuesday, August 2, 2011 at 5:28 pm | Permalink
  41. danup wrote:

    I’m not a blink fan at all, but Jerry Finn produced Destination Failure, my favorite album ever. A version of “O Girl” that sounds as good as “I Was Right” or “No More Smiles” would blow my mind.

    Monday, August 8, 2011 at 11:48 pm | Permalink
  42. Jamekae wrote:

    Jerry Finn was a fantastic producer, I was distraught when I heard the news about him passing. My favourite thing he did would probably have to be AFI’s Sing the Sorrow, from a production standpoint it’s such a solid album. Listening to ‘This Celluloid Dream’ I can definitely agree with you that he’d be well suited for the job of tackling songs like these.

    Monday, August 15, 2011 at 2:16 am | Permalink
  43. SS2K PUNK wrote:

    I agree with you guys hardcore. I think it very likely that history will remember Finn as one of the, if not THE, greatest punk-pop producers of all time. He really knew how to get the most out of that genre. He certainly got a lot of mileage out of what most would consider the limitations of the genre. It’s amazing how differently he produces different bands and albums, yet how they all have his unique sonic imprint. I think he had a knack for capturing the bands he produced really well.

    I can’t imagine how much more epic SS2K would sound if it had been fully recorded in Rivers garage with the W boys and Finn behind the boards. Maybe in some alternate dimension that album exists… a man can dream right? I think he would have taken these songs to the next level.

    While it looks like most fans prefer Green to SS2K, i think the tables would be turned if there was a Finn produced SS2K for us to compare Green to. O well, there’s no point slamming our heads against a brick wall that isn’t there.

    Monday, August 15, 2011 at 10:19 am | Permalink
  44. jack moihoff wrote:

    ss2k would have sold 1/10 of green. we never would have heard from cuomo again. buzz off, ss2k.

    Friday, August 19, 2011 at 5:57 pm | Permalink
  45. SS2K PUNK wrote:

    haters gotta troll… cause albums not selling what cuomo expected (cough-mala) would certainly cause Cuomo to disappear forever and never ever ever release an album again. and you’re right, there are clearly no hits from that era, I can’t imagine any songs Rivers wrote during that time period to ever be a hit, i mean, can you imagine a song like Island in the Sun, Dope Nose, Hash Pipe, or My Brain EVER being at all successful on radio?

    Well, I sure can’t. You’re totally right jackoff

    Monday, August 22, 2011 at 7:53 am | Permalink

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